Most of the time loot council sucks big time and it only there to boost “officers” etc.
Now if you are in a top 10-20 guild yea LC not only makes sense but is kinda needed.
In my guild we use simply DKP with a 10% decay each week. At this moment if you check our logs you can see for example that most of our warriors are very closely geared so if the goal is to spread out loot fairly and evenly thats the way to go.
The way classic is its really hard to get all the gear you want anyway and no system no matter how perfect it is can not fix that.
On our realm almost every decent guild is LC because that is what they saw the hardcore guilds do. I’d rather have gone EPGP or DKP from the start, but the few guilds that even do that are so far and few that it almost didn’t feel like a choice. Of course there is some sketchy stuff in those guilds too (random resets come to mind when it suits the leadership) but overall it feels more sure in terms of effort-reward. I’ve seen a lot of applicants bounce on joining the LC guild for that reason.
What you’re saying is BS. Yes loot council has it’s issues, but so does DKP and every other loot system there is.
For example, I was in a guild where I would flask each week, parse higher than 90% of the raid every week, had 100% attendance, bla bla the list goes on, yet for every boss, everyone would get the same dkp. It didn’t matter how well I did, as long as I showed up.
Loot council rewards putting in that extra effort. Are you helping guildies in non-raid times? Are you trying to push your parses every week? Bringing enough consumables, world buffs, a positive attitude?
Yes it has its problems, but they all do, it’s down to the individual which loot system they prefer.
Can’t say I agree. My guild has run loot council since the start of Classic, we’re ranked at 4-5th on Horde of Bloodfang so we aren’t a top 20 speedrunning guild; but loot council has worked perfectly for us.
Whilst LC might be hard for new raiders to join and start gearing up, they actually get things faster than with EP/GP or DKP.
LC basically rewards people for being good. EP/GP and DKP just reward people for showing up.
In my opinion, it’s the opposite. It feels rewarding when someone rewards you. They show they appreciate you, they show you are a valuable member of the team, they show you deserve the loot. It’s very personal and feels much better than when using some cold predetermined system.
That’s exactly the kind of reason why ppl avoid LCs in the first place. It’s basically the WoW’s version of CEOs boosting their own salaries in real life.
…My GM would laugh if he saw those last two comments. Dispite having 99% raid attendance, he isn’t one of the most geared raiders.
Actually, the only member of our LC that is geared to the teeth is our MT. Boosting the tanks gear early meant that we’re not threat capped, so that decision was 100% worth it.
…Do EP/GP / DKP guilds have threat problems because of undergeared tanks?
In my guild, the three main tanks are completely outside the dkp system, getting literally any item they need for threat gen no questions asked.
Then again we don’t run a pure dkp system anyway, but an arcane mixture of LC fiat for tanks, suicide kings type lists with fixed dkp price for tier sets/ class specific loot and 20% heavy decay heavy gain dkp with detailed class and spec restrictions for cross-class and very desirable items. It’s the best of all worlds, so to speak.
In 15 years, the average player have not become any better at understanding how gear should be properly divided, its all me me me and me.
LC is not just about dividing it to those who perform the most, but about rewarding people for showing up, being decent people, play properly to not drag the guild down into the mud by the average players greed.
In a proper LC, players will feel much more rewarded than in a dkp guild where you gain currency to purchase gear, because this is a social game, and being rewarded make people happier to recieve things, than when they purchase something.
LC have a bad rumor cause you only really hear about the bad LC’s, the good ones people rarely talk about cause they are working well and got no issues.
Same as on forums, 90% is whining, that doesnt mean the game is bad, just that once someone have a issue, they come here, while happy players dont.
LC is a good system when you have people you trust, and people that put others ahead of themselves. Sadly not always the best player is chosen, or rather in some cases. If the GM or some of the officers are the “best players” (Tho in vanilla most press 1 button… so… best player is hard to pick out) or the people that have all the consumables, best attendance, go the extra mile etc. It is still not good to focus gearing him/them ahead of the rest because in the eyes of the new people it looks like “Officers and GM taking all the gear”.
In a Guild where people know each other this does not matter. A lot of people do not have the needed experience to form good and fair Loot Councils, sadly.
Equally DKP and systems like it are bad because players will hoard DKP for Wep, trinkets and items that provide a real and visible power-up. You get a new wep as a melee and you see instant difference in the numbers, where as bracers/belt etc, well thats a very small upgrade most of the time.
This way players pass on smaller upgrades for much bigger ones, and generally the one that holds off the longest gets the best reward. This system in turn and over time hurts the Guild as you will end up missing out on upgrades and the dmg and healing will go down overall.
LC is overall better, even when abused since no upgrade gets ignored. But this is going from a Guild > Player perspective that most senior raiders agree with.
In Classic dmg and healing mostly do no matter as much as they do on retail, since the bosses die in 30-60sec (Not all) and people do 300% more dmg then people did back in Vanilla.
All in all, both systems have flaws, but id take LC over DKP any day, and if I felt the Guild is corrupt in its dealings id just look for another one.
LC is great for progression but the moment something is on farm it’s usually useless to have LC. Why? The meaning to have LC is to give gear to people who will use it to improve the raid performance output most. But if a raid is already on farm, you’re reaching for above performance output needed. If going for speed kills, that’s another thing as that puts the required performance output to be higher. So when you no longer need to funnel gear, but you continue to funnel gear, it becomes pointless.
Any modern point system at that point is better. I say modern because having points for attendance only is too old fashioned and not to speak about unfair point resets or inflation (easily solved by weekly decays, reasonable caps or other extra point rules).
This is why personal loot is one of the best things to ever happen to the game. There is zero drama from loot distribution. Loot drama can, and already has, killed guilds in Classic.
No loot method is ideal. They all have pros and cons.
Loot Council pros: if run well, a Loot Council can distribute the loot fairly, gearing up new recruits to help the raid overall. Giving the newbie a sweet weapon will increase raid damage far more than giving an already geared character a tiny upgrade.
Loot Council cons: Very, VERY susceptible to corruption and favouritism. Doesn’t really need much more explanation than that. And even if they do keep it fair, there will be people who will ‘detect a pattern’ and accuse the council of corruption.
Open roll pros: It’s all the luck of the dice.
Open roll cons: It’s all the luck of the dice. You’ll get that person who just keeps winning by pure luck compared to those who don’t even get table scraps. Eventually those with bad luck will just quit.
Points system pros: awards points based on contribution and deducts points based on loot given or services given by the guild
Points system cons: I don’t think any add ons can track everything except maybe boss kills. But what about that alchemist who just sent enough elixers to the guild bank character to provide for several raid runs? Does that not count at all? No doubt the points will be stored on a website or forum where it can be manipulated unless the person responsible is a saint. And then there’s always the chance something is missed and a simple mistake becomes an accusation of points manipulation.
Also, what do you do when it comes to new raid tiers and new recruits? Do you reset the points every tier so that lesser geared and newbies can get gear? Because otherwise those who really pulled their weight into the guild will just get everything due to their stockpiled points, leading to frustration about those who haven’t had a chance yet. But if you wipe points, then that person who really helped the guild out in the raids will feel cheated of all their effort.
You need to find a loot system that works for your guild and stick with it. No system is perfect so find which one causes the least problems.
Not to be a shill for the points systems, but those problems are completely eliminated by adding 10-20% weekly decay. Also an addon like Monolith DKP will sync between players and log every addition or substraction of DKP, with reason given by the editor, making it night impossible to cheat/make mistakes.
Any person joining will be in the game for less desired items literally after their first raid, and up there with top contenders within a month. I don’t think anyone should reasonably expect gear sooner.
While i agree with the last part (LC reward people for being good), that is precisely the issue with LC. As “being good” is only based on numbers (dps etc) for most mediocre LC, what happens is that instead of gearing people who actually need it (undergeared players), you keep feeding loot to your best performing (aka geared for Classic) while leaving the vast majority of your raiders lootless and ignored.
Then those quit and new recruit come in while your performing lootw**res keep gearing up and building a bigger gap with lesser geared / newcomers.
I’m not saying the GM should get all gear first but ofc they should be rewarded for extra time spent, as should each officer and guild member. It’s almost like you’re saying that someone who spent less time/effort than you (raid attendance) should not get gear over you but someone who spent more time/effort than you (working on guild spreadsheets, discord etc.) should also not get gear over you. Either that, or you’re not telling the full story. For example when the other guy last got an item, and when you last got an item.
They get rewarded with time spent already by their status in the social group. They’re already benefiting in getting legendaries and an abundance of mats and free enchants. Craving more is just greedy.