Even assuming a ‘fair’ loot council, it’s just not right to have a system where you determine a loot order that can be changed at any time. Today I got passed over a first priority being 100% attendance to someone with 67% attendance without any communication, a sheet can be adjusted at any point in time for whatever reason undemocratically.
It sucks that it seems you constantly have to lobby yourself to get the above example ‘corrected’. In my view there are no other systems that are this arbitrary, for example EPGP or DKP is earned and no-one can be skipped over between raids like that in a loot council.
At this point in the phases a switch is not realistic since if you start a fresh EPGP for example it also takes a lot of time to build up.
It’s not really a system. It’s just some people giving loot to other people based on feelings. Unless the LC have some actual system in place, but most don’t, it’s almost always feelings, what feels like the best choice.
I appreciate the things in this thread so far, especially because you wonder sometimes ‘Is it fair to speak to the LC now’. In my view it might be because someone with far lower attendance skips ahead of you with 100% attendance. There is no considerable performance gap, it would be very close but the other player is marginally better. However over multiple ID’s a 33% attendance shortage can’t weigh more then a 1% performance gap.
In short: am I right to complain is always the question in my mind in a LC…
If you aren’t in a top 20 speedrunning guild where it is implicit every loot decision is for the expess purpose of raid speed benefit, and yet the guild is using loot council, you are just being used as a serf to gear up the clique. The sooner you realize you are getting scraps from he table of our “betters”, the sooner you can get out and apply to a fair guild using dkp or epgp with decay.
You should more or less always question the LC. They should always have a good reason for why the priorities a sertain way and they should explain it before the loot even drop.
A transparent LC with set rules on how everything is going to be handled is the best way. Changes to loot on the fly should never be allowed (of course disconnects etc are a different story). And imo the LC should have a player or /roll on every piece of gear that drops shown before you enter the raid.
Ex: Mish undare>player x
Nelth tear>player y>player z
Sotsf>roll, raider prio
Cloak>player k
I left the guild I was in from September 2019 to January 2020 partly because of the Lootcouncil. And I was a permanent part of that LC.
The problem there was, they wanted to give people an equal number of BiS items. And for healers that meant druids had 2-3 Setpieces as BiS items in MC, same with priests and for shamans all 8 counted as BiS because of the setbonus. That meant that the shamans had basically no chance of getting Cauterizing Band.
Then of course people complained about not getting the item they wanted and getting other items instead (I remember a case of a mage that wanted the bracers and kept getting other pieces and watched the bracers go to someone else several times).
Having a point-based system or something similar (suicide kings, whatever, so long as it was always clear who would get what and why) was a hard requirement for me after that.
This is for the most part a LC thats not super experienced in every aspect of the game, a simple discussion with the loot council should do the trick on this one.
If however the loot countil refuse to see the difference between the top bis items, and a set bonus, then its doomed to fail.
Priests have the same in BWL if they want their T2 8set bonus (which is really good, but due to the buffcap it cant be used in a raid that are fully world buffed)
My guild have items in different chategories for the loot countil. where the real crazy good items have their own chategory, and the other gear (like t2) one of their own. so taking a medium item, doesnt impact your chances at getting the best items.
So for a healer, you got from bwl the trash boots, nef ring, reju gem and emp leggings.
While the power of those 4 is not completly equal, they are all items that you wont replace during vanilla unless you wanna go for some t3 set bonuses, so they share loot priority.
Tier items, is something pretty much everyone will get anyway, they dont belong on the same priority as the rare powerfull items. At most, the full shaman T1set would count as a single item on that priority, but i wouldnt do that.
LC’s are only as good as the people using it, if you feel that you are getting passed over, talk with your LC. But for the love of gnomes, do not go in all passive agressive and ask why you didnt get the item you wanted, the only good that will do, is to put you at the bottom of the priority, people causing drama, or being agressive is the kind of people you dont want to hand the best stuff to, cause they have a tendency to leave once they have gotten what they want.
Well it sounds like corruption. If the guy got above you with 67% attendace then he is probably did something for the gm like gave him good amount of gold, irl friend etc.
Or the 100% attendance only show up 15 minutes before raid, logs of after and never seen again till next raid, where the 67% guy helps around every raid summoning everyone to world buffs, farming consumables all week with guildies, and is helpful in general, just had to miss a few raids.
Or the 100% attendance is always there but always giving drama, asspulls, or just performs terrible, where the 67% guy is performs good and so on.
If you want loot council to be based strictly on attendance, then it’s called DKP.
You can not judge the working of a loot council based on one post just mentioning the attendance.
Unless the LC is composed by hyper memorizing ppl there surely is a list/file that the officers (and whoever is interested in asking) can check.
In my guild we have different files concerning classes/roles and we also have the officers talking to every1 involved in order to tell us main priorities and such.
Assume much?
I can tell you I have 4 summoner alts in different locations, take all world buffs and bring and use consumables.
Anyway took the advice and talked to LC, worked out for me this time. Will not give too much detail not to give my identity away but sometimes you’d be surprised what strange philosophies underly LC decisions.
Half of the problem with LC is members having a hard time seeing the bigger picture, watching everything from their own perspective (ego-centric) and having a hard time understanding that just showing up and “beeing loyal”/old member isnt the same as performing.
Thats why LC is a problem often seen in casual and semi-hardcore guilds, and rarely in hardcore guilds.
The other half is LC where people gear themselfs first. Leaders eat last, they say.
I get that there are many forms of LC, and the difficulty is in identifying which one we are talking about.
With respect to my last reply I can say I’m a bit to defensive about myself and kind of a smartass, which I’ll give it to Diokhan may not make me the most liked. I try to tone that down as much as I can and overcompensate in other areas (performance). But that perfectly illustrates though that a LC looks at so many parts of a puzzle that it’s sometimes not transparant to people what decisions are ultimately based on.
