The problem with raiding right now is not just low drop rate, but lower drop rate combined with much more intensive mechanics and time-consuming. Just doesn’t feel worth it.
M+ gear is just insane at the start of the season - PvP gear is massively timegated but will get decent gear for PvP in the very long run. But it’s insane how many insane geared PvErs I face around 1600 MMR - how do these guys have almost 40k hp compared to my 32k from PvP(I actually managed to face an affli lock with almost 43k hp???).
Since PvP scaling was removed - thats like an almost automatic loss even if they press random buttons … My biggest ilevel jump this xpac was doing one evening of M+ in the first week.
I actually think raiding and PvP are gearing way too slow.
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If you did ulduar timewalking you’d be higher item level, raiding in itself gives no advantage with 1 item per week that you’re most likely trading away or it’s with poor stats.
I only play PvP and in the 1,6-1,8k bracket I’m playing against people who are on average 3-5k hp above me. So tell me more about superior PvP gearing, you actually have to compete against others and there are limited spots meanwhile you can wipe through a M+ dungeon for 3 hours and still get rewarded for it lmfao. But I see, PvPers aren’t allowed to enjoy the game or have any meaningful gear progression.
Btw honor gear is capped at 184 ilvl and takes forever to grind (I wasn’t even able to afford full honor gear on my alt after 200 arena wins) until next week. At least make a reasonable suggestion which doesn’t f*** over PvP players like it was the case in BfA because M+ was so horrible overrewarding that you had a hard time to compete in anything without spamming the heck out of M+.
Edit: Your actually 10 ilvl above me as someone who plays only PvE vs someone who plays only PvP. Big complaints about nothing…
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And +15 chest was wellfare loot -compared to glad. Even so I mainly PvPed and tried to improve I was able to hit 2.1k - but could easily time -at the time I was 1.6k rating in bfa - +15 keys and did the first mythic raidbosses… If you think PvP is welfare gear @OP try to reach some high arena ratings - your 207 ilevel with a S-tier class should carry you a bit anyway.
then stop playing. if you can’t see the bigger picture. all the others told you exactly why it is like it is. End of discussion
And yet I have 4 PvP items and a single Raid item that actually dropped for me. So tell me how PVE gearing is influencing you again? [the other one is ‘welfare’ for doing 4 mythic dungeons during weekly quest.]
Let’s also add insult to injury - PVPers looted 233 weapons before mythic raid even opened its gates, something nobody even knew was possible.
This is a tricky, very tricky subject for Blizzard to get right so I can sympathise. Here are my 2 cents as a returning player.
Gearing in this expansion is very difficult, I don’t mean difficult in the raiding sense, the raid is actually easy compared to past raids and Mythics are faceroll. Also anyone with a fotm class can easily get 1800 rating this season.
Now, I understand Blizzard wants people to play all content however, the funny thing is, this game has AMAZING content aside from raising and PvP, truly WoW has more content than any game on earth. People though like being hamsters and grind grind grind for upgrades. This makes the game turn into a job, almost, with a mix of dopamine release.
Honestly I’ve only been back for a few weeks and I can honestly see why I will burn out/ quit over something that doesn’t feel like a job.
This is what I want to do:
I want to play with my friends and have fun, some of my friends are in different stages of the game, so this is impossible
I want to do pet battles. Yes I love pet battles in WoW, sue me
I want to do random BGs every once in a while, it’s funny, the whole Horde vs Alliance and troll chat is funny
I want to play World of Fashioncraft, it’s fun to customise your characters look
I want to explore and quest, and level Alts. There’s so much content to do!
The list goes on.
Unfortunately I can’t do all of that because the drop rates are so bad this game forces me to spam Mythics+ all day in hopes that I maybe, get one piece of gear. I’ve cleared Nathria twice in the last two weeks without a single drop, pvp gear is too low ilvl for me and the stats aren’t good for PvE anyway, the weapon is good I guess. Not to mention the whole covenant, Torghast and Maw quests.
My point is, we don’t have time to do any of the actual fun games because the actual content we need to do takes so long and feels like a job.
Blizzard you’ve made one of the best games of all time for the last 15 years. Let us enjoy it, stop forcing us to do stuff to remain competitive. It’s just a game.
He is talking about M+ not raid gearing - raid gearing is timegated and slow aswell. The chance to get a weapon from PvP is very slim. Every gearing system has its advantages and disadvantages atm - best way is too gear over ALL. Best thing still would be if conquest was uncapped - PvE dropped alot of gear again so everybody could happily fully gear like he wants 
. Then playing alts would be an option again…
Some classes / specs do benefit from Versatility and it’s their best stat… I hate it as a stat it is just a passive thing, you do not realise it’s there…
you can buy one piece from the pvp vendor each week, u can get 15x 210 from m+ in a few days
Up for that.
Since resilience won’t come back they better turn versa as the pvp only stat.
Remove versa from all dungeons and raids drop table.
Sorry tanks but it is what it is.
Honestly hit and expertise capping wasnt fun at all.
80% items in PVE ALL VERSALITY this is the PROBLEM
almost many specs and classes DONT NEED VERSA
so hard to grind perfect stated items
for example THERE NO LEATHER BELT without versality or BRACER
If you lose a pvp match you get zero conquest. In fact, gearing from pvp with all the improvements is still slower than pve. Do you know how much you need to pvp to buy the 200ilvl weapon? Meanwhile, if you raid and do m+, every week you’re guaranteed a choice of one of SIX top quality items.
Yes it is not great for anyone, PvP or PvE. It is a cr*p design, and it has almost always been this way, having to run the same dungeons dozens of times trying to get one or two pieces of gear. It is done on purpose to keep players playing (and paying) for longer.
I dont see Why you Think pvp is better gearing? Only items you Can buy is 184ilvl? If they make pve vendor with 184ilvl would you buy it? I mean it’s better to spam m+ and get your 200ilvl pieces, i know loot is rare atm but for sure still better than pvp. I have Said this once before, the conquest cap is 550 so you Can Max get 1goos item a week, you wait 2weeks for chest/head/shoulder/legs, 2weeks if your lucky you Can get thar drop from m+ first day of reset… Do i dont believe pvp gearing is better…
People in my guild spam mythics all day and someone dinged 60 yesterday and he’s already 226 item levels.
I’ve been 60 for three weeks or more and I’m only 197 thanks to the conquest point cap and time gated PvP gear upgrades.
Tell me again how gear is handed out to pvpers.
Yeah no they arent it is impossible to gear to 226 in that amount of time (highest m+ loot is 210, vault is weekly). They’ve cleared mythic raid with full armour stack so they got traded everything? You’re so full of rubbish.
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2 Guaranteed items per week you can pick and upgrade from.
Compared to a single item from a full raid clear, actually if you loot a single item from the raid at any point, you might as well alt-f4 since you’re not getting a 2nd one.
Proof?
At most he’d be wearing 4 pvp items and 4 boe items which cost literal milions.