they want to force us to buy tokens, shadowlands legendary crafting was one of the first steps…
1 Like
Now ask yourself the purpose of this.
What is “real” endgame? Raids? You get money with raid, which you usually do with your guild. Idk… if you don’t do it with your guild, is it still “real endgame”?
Technically you barely need any gold for the “endgame”, if you want to be at the top of the top and run like +12 keys instead of +9 then you should accept that you might need to buy some stuff, so go and get some money. Nothing too special here.
Well, that’s very naive way of thinking. What was before the token? Did Blizzard want to create gold sellers? Obviously not.
You have these satchels in the game, I do around 1-2 runs per day, which is done within 15-30 minutes. This ends up in around 3,5k - 13k gold, depends how many runes I have and what the price is. This money is more than enough for raiding and doing M+
Well, let them play how they like it? I knew a guy who was only “playing” auction house. But it would be useless and pointless if the money had no value and the only value it has if people actually need it, for M+ and raiding.
Was literally the opposite for me. I had to buy 2 tokens in Cata because I was constantly running out of money without having any proper income. And then to level the mandatory professions… horrible. I am glad this non sense is gone.
Ye but you don’t even need it in the first place. Unless you are playing at the top of the top, I guess. Everyone would laugh if my raid lead forced me to use a flask lol. If I don’t feel like it, I am not using it. But I am not denying it’s helpful, it’s just not required.
Valorstones are a short term issue, pretty soon you will be capped because the real difficulty is having enough crests to be able to upgrade items.
Wtf, how? Cataclysm gold income is far higher than outgoings as a raider, it’s not even remotely comparable to the costs of TWW. The only expensive thing in Cataclysm is the BIS weapon enchants (a whopping 1000g, lol). What exactly were you spending your gold on?
Sorry but… how? Jewelcrafting dailies give you 100+ g daily for 3 clicks. A 1hr Flask is 65g. A STR potion is 6.5g.
Just doing jewelcrafting daily ( literally 3 clicks ) is enough to fund raiding for a week. I have legit not farmed gold on Classic since WOTLK launched and I’ve maintained decently competitive logs/raiding. All I do is JWC dailies on 2 characters. I also have 4 tokens in my bags I bought with gold because any extra gold I don’t need is spent on Tokens, and I have plenty extra gold.
And that’s ignoring the Valor and Justice points which you can turn into gold by buying mats ( Justice ) or BoE epics ( Valor ) which still sell for 1k+. You can buy one of those a week with just the daily dungeon.
And then I look at Retail where I have to fly around Dorn and pick up flowers for 2-3 hours just to afford a BIS enchant.
" Respects your time " my sweet 
this thing’s grindier than Vanilla.
Well I did not have it, also doing dailys… ugh… that’s why I like retail. I rather tank a heroic dungeon quick for a satchel and have several k gold in my pocket. It’s fun, easy and works good for me.
Also, when I played Cata the flask was not 65g^^ it was more like 300 or something? Don’t wanna lie about the price but 100% not cheap, like at all.
That’s what these filthy life skillers asked for 
Ye enchantments are crazy expensive at the start of the season, man I remember back in the days I needed weeks of casual gameplay to get one enchant lol… so ye I am actually happy with how it works right now but I understand it’s not for everyone.
It’s… literally a few clicks. You pick up the quest, craft the 3 gems, turn in the quest.
30g reward + 1 gem that you can sell for 100g or 300g if you wait for a raid release. It’s basically free money.
It’s literally 65g on Golemagg, that’s my last registered price. I just checked.
And btw I don’t even have to flask, the Guild provides cauldrons, so really my raid costs a week are like… 40 STR potions which come around 200-300g.
I get more than that just killing the raid bosses, completely ignoring the 1400g a week I get from jewelcrafting and the money I get from the Justice/Valor points.
Do you understand this? I’m making enough gold to buy tokens raidlogging and doing 2 dailies. Meanwhile on Retail I need to grind hours of herbalism to afford enchants. It’s infuriatingly bad.
thats true, i wish there is a chance to drop a null stone, when u dont getting loot at all
idk about the m+ concept, u do a long run, to get at the end nothing, and if you are unlucky u wont see for 3-4 chests any item, atleast give the chance to get a null stone instead of the 100 or 200gold
Yeah, exactly, it’s very obvious. I will just be very stubborn with this, but luckily as a tank, it doesn’t matter, if I’m a bit undergeared.
Also, this whole dynamic is just really unhealthy: Raiders/M+ players are supposed to pay real money indirectly to full-time farmers, who spend all their gaming time in the trade channel? How about no? These type of players also make it very annoying for normal players to engage in the market, because they try everything to discourage others. I’ve read here that people apparently get mass reported, if they undercut. So no: I am not interested in paying additional money to my sub to fund gold farmers
I have played the previous expac, i know i ll have stones, but right now it feels so bad, and it wont get better for at least 3 weeks posibly more, if their plan to solve problems is to ignore it the its lame, like why fix the fact that survival has to use t3 in s4? just wait for the next expantion and instead of fixing it forget about it??? I still have not forgiven them for the arcanocrystal situation, They need to fix things when they are annoying instead of just using time to make the problem irrelevant.
There are enchants that legit cost 30,000 gold and I’m sure competitive guilds expect you to have them. That’s a lot of money. It would take you hours of herb gathering for that. And that’s ONE enchant.
1 Like
Wdym? Flasks around 300g, pre pot elixirs (not sure how much but not cheap, especially in the long run), leveling profession was alone like 20k gold and that’s before mats got crazy expensive where leveling profession was like 35-50k gold… that’s where I quit btw. Token was how much? 10k gold on Cata?
And then getting gold… where from? Doing all these annoying dailys and stuff? Na… not for me
Well, I didn’t have the profession. Need to level it up first and it’s taking some time too and money. (or just a looot of time) I was rather selling gems for honor but that was not much and required much more time than I need now on retail. But that’s just my way of playing, far from best and efficient.
Ye that’s different time, don’t foget it. I was playing on Cata release, when the hype was there. It’s prolly dead by now. I mean I quit because barely anyone was playing it, even my guild stopped because it was just boring at this point.
This is something your guild could do on retail too 
Is there no way getting money with professions? Idk the guy who crafted me 2 pieces at the “start” of the season got 5k per piece from me and that was considered low because barely anyone could make it.
Well ye, I do and I kinda agree but correct me if I am wrong: None of your gold comes from dungeons and raiding, it’s all side activities, right?
I think there should be an option to exchange your valorstones (or what it’s called) for gold. I guess that would be cool.
Well, maybe but that’s the nature of being competitive. I mean come on… you can’t be “chilling” there AND be competitive with the top of the top^^ that’s not realistic. But I’d guess most of us don’t run into this issue anyway. And the competitive guys simply don’t care because they are sitting on millions from boosting.
Lmao… don’t believe everything you read on the forum… like 95% is pure bs.
Yeah, that’s straight up p2w garbage, and it doesn’t belong to a game with a sub, and paid expansions.
1 Like
yes and different enchants are better for st/aoe other spec of the same calss, so you are forced to either get lucky and get a second weapon or to re enchant every time you progress a diferent fight or do different content, it gets too expensive to play the game at a high level and it promotes oligarchy in a game that we play to escape the unfair real world and have fun and we came in a virtual unfair world and its lame
wow is already one off the most expensive games someone can play, the least they could do is respect our time after we log in
Did you ever pay attention how much the enchantment does? If that was already enough to win, our entire guild would have paid long time ago.
If I sponsor you the enchantment right now, are you gonna clear +12 by tomorrow?^^
Heck, make it 5 enchantments!
Flasks were never 300g on Cata. Don’t be ridiculous. Also any good guild should provide them.
Literally 7g
At the start. It’s 30k right now. It grew from 10K to 30K in a few months, that should tell you that Cata players have a lot of gold.
Okay but we’re talking about M+ here.
You mean on Retail? There’s no need to tip that much, plenty people will do those crafts for free.
No. Dungeons give Justice Points and 240 Valor a day.
1650 Valor = 1 BoE that sold for 30K at the start, now sells for 500-1000g.
Only reason I’m not richer is I cba to do dungeons. If I did I’d be making an additional 700g a week from selling the BoE.
Justice points = buy mats with them
Define top of the top. In Cata we cleared all content and my guild is top250. And I raid log and don’t ever need to farm gold. Not only that, I’m making money raiding and doing dailies. I play Cata literally less than 5 hours a week because we clear all 3 raids in less than 4 hours.
Meanwhile on Retail I need to farm 3 hours for 1 enchant.
+12s weren’t even cleared last week were they?
But lower that requirement and I’ll take you up on that offer.
1 Like
enchants now can add up to 2 sockets to every neck or ring that can then be socketed, also add suvivabillity though avoidance and increece the dps of a person by well over 10%, in 10 peaople raid that is basicly having an extra dps that doesnt need healing, i would say thats pretty insane
Edit : For comparison.
Cata Combat Potion Price = 4g
TWW Combat Potion Price = 876g - 219x more expensive
Cata raid flask price = 75g
TWW raid flask price = 4000g - 53x more expensive
Cata gold token price = about 30k
TWW gold token price = about 300k - 10x more expensive.
The numbers speak for themselves, comparatively speaking Cataclysm is way cheaper to raid with. Buying enchants and consumables can be done with just a bit of daily chores for full min-maxing, in TWW that will barely pay for your repairs, if you’re progression raiding it won’t even come close to paying repairs.
75g.
4g - Same as or cheaper than in TBC/WOTLK but you earn 3-4x the gold for the same effort. Just queuing up for a random dungeon as a dps pays 111g, not even the tanking satchel.
I was swimming in gold in WOTLK and I raided sweaty, I had 99.8% parse average in TOTGC.
I’m not using any flasks for m+ at this point. I’ll use that if I push higher, later in the season.
Are you sure this is how it works?^^
What’s your main? Wanna share?
Well, welcome to life. You can buy everything. If you think WoW is p2w then you truly never played an actual p2w game. Paying someone to achieve for you something is older than WoW. If you ask me you expect a bit too much of WoW… you literally expect something that never existed before.
As I said, I am not sure how much exactly but enough to make me buy a token. Also, I was raiding with a bunch of friends, not some hardcore guild.
That’s the whole point. I bought one token in the end of WotLK where it was somewhat over 9k and at the start of Cata it actually dropped to 7k or something. It was painful getting so little gold for 20€ because everything was hella expensive. You just compare the prices from today. Remember, it’s also the start of the season in TWW, give it time and stuff will not cost anything too.
There was, nobody else could do it and he simply would not do it lol^^ In fact I had to wait in line because apparently you can’t craft highest quality as much as you want per day.
Wooot? That’s something I remember, because that was my other token. Boots were 10k gold at the start. Not sure what’s up on your server but it seems to be completely different from my experience. Also remember, Valor was capped and you either had to make an alt (or several alts) which was EXTREMELY time consuming or skip on your own progress.
Ngl I am surprised people still play Cata AND actually buy it lol^^
Like top 5% in logs? Clearing everything asap while having 95%+ logs? Maybe even 98%+
How tho? Selling boes? Because raid itself barely gives anything, no?
Several +12 were cleared I believe, even before nerfs. Now we have +13 cleared.
That was more of joke for the guy since he said it’s p2w, so if I pay he should win, per definition
Now, not back then.
Ye idk how you guys got gold from dungeons and raids in Cata (or WotLK). I didn’t lol… like not at all… and the money I had to spend on consumables and leveling professions is not comparable to retail. I bought more tokens on Cata, then I will buy this expansion on retail and I will play retail for longer for sure^^
You can’t compare season start with basically dead Cata^^ also, you are comparing highest quality stuff while Cata did not even have it, no?
But at the same time, I could turn your argument actually against you:
You can buy a retail token much cheaper by doing professions on retail than on cata.
You wanna do the maths?
Cata token in the start was 7k.
Retail token rn 288k.
I said earlier I paid for my flask 300g, ok let’s call this bs, let’s say 200g. That’s 35 flasks for one token. That’s CRAZY! But let’s take even your price right now from the flask, which it was 100% not in the start. That’s still 93-94 flasks.
I pay 600g (silver quality) for my flask on retail, few days ago 300g but doesn’t matter, prices went up. That’s 480!!! flask for ONE token^^
You got 5 times less for Cata token than you get for retail token right now.