M+ gives too good loot

[Potatohunter-aegwynn]

the dungeon design still is the same and probably trash mobs too.

general dungeons are still there like normals, heroics, mythics.
But 2 years the same 10 dungeons is not alot content. At least i get very bored and can run the dungeons while asleep.
Slapping 20% more HP and DMG on everything during a content patch is not exciting.
I just gave an idea of something. I don’t get paid for having good ideas what to do with this game. But still better than nothing, like we get from our great devs

[Tahen-pozzo-delleternità]

I’ll take the first option.
Even less loot than this is too harsh, but a reduction in ilvl of the rewards seems honest.

Also, for me failed keys should not count towards the weekly cache: it’s a double benefit not needed and not deserved. You fail and get the same rewards as someone who makes it in time, and also get a guaranteed loot better than your best result.

[Ishayu-frostmane (Ishayu)]

@Danellos-sylvanas

What if we had a system like this:

• If you fail to reach the timer in M+, you will get loot from lower keys relative to by how much you fail it. Though personally I think it should only limit that loot to -1 the current level. Alternatively, your chances to get loot could be decreased.
• If you do manage to reach the timer, you are awarded loot accordingly as per the current system.

I feel like this could actually resolve several complaints around M+ in this thread. It will reward good teams for making the timer, while simultaneously not diminishing the effort put in by those who participate heroic/mythic raiding. In raiding, if you do not kill the boss, you get no loot. Beating a timer in M+ should be half-equivalent to killing the boss properly.

I don’t really think this solves anything personally, sorry to say.

You can still infinitely farm them while raiders cannot infinitely farm raids, and therefore it’s still going to give too many upgrades too early on, and it still has the weekly chest which gives a completely random item from a selection of several hundred possible items.

Also, personally I think that losing the ability to get relevant items because I failed the timer would feel awful and it’d make me stop running the dungeon immediately instead of finishing it. It’s not the short-term defeat of “oh no we failed a fight, let’s try again”, but the longer term defeat of “Oh we’re not gonna make it. Might as well stop” - and once the thought of stopping something medium-term is in my mind, I just stop entirely.

[Psjohly-argent-dawn (Psjohly)]

I am still not sure why 400 Ivl pieces are too good in comparison with the 415 of the raid. And when you want to get some competition between heroic and M+, get us set pieces from raiding back in (and get rid of the azerite pieces).

[Slaf-argent-dawn]

@Tahen-pozzo-delleternità

failed keys should not count towards the weekly cache

I don’t know if I agree with you here, because it creates another reason for players to just leave and nobody gets loot at all. It’s especially annoying after actually putting in hard work and time.

The way the system is now, is creating more friendliness than before, because if you push keys, and it turns out you are going to miss the timer, or even if you know you will miss it, more people will actually stick around to get it done and get loot. You might be having a hard time, and you can actually learn more and get experience.

Yesterday we weren’t even halfway through Shrine of the storm, and the timer ran out, that’s about 36 or 39 minutes I think. We had a tank which was undergeared and spent a lot of time between pulls. But we all stayed, because we wanted more m+ experience, and we still got loot. And for those that had this as the highest M+ for this week, then it was an even better reason to stay, just to fight through this run which lasted over 1 hour.

If we start nerfing the system, then we will get more leavers. We need a reason for people to continue through the whole dungeon.

[Punyelf-draenor (Punyelf)]

I agree it would just exacerbate the issues with M+ rather than help.

[Tahen-pozzo-delleternità]

I get your point, but leaving it like this is unfair on who close it in time.
Same content, same difficulty, closing in time should reward more.

Maybe the chest should not be a +10 lvl guaranteed for failed keys but just base ilvl of they key completed?

[Psjohly-argent-dawn (Psjohly)]

That is lower than a 9 in time (400 vs 405). People just want the weekly reward and leave the +10 run.

[Tahen-pozzo-delleternità]

i personally consider a 9 in time harder than a 10 offtime.

[Psjohly-argent-dawn (Psjohly)]

Then we are getting into a grey area since the dungeon with 1 level higher is scaled more difficult, and the +10 has even 1 more affix than a +9.

Edit:
Worst scenario of course, but you value a +9 with 1 second in time as a better result than a +10 with 1 second out of time.

[Tahen-pozzo-delleternità]

grey area indeed.
true that +10 has 1 affix more, yet the bownsamdi bonus is a huge help to clear, and there is none like it for keys below.

[Psjohly-argent-dawn (Psjohly)]

@Tahen-pozzo-delleternità

I get your point, but leaving it like this is unfair on who close it in time.
Same content, same difficulty, closing in time should reward more.

I do agree with this. I think it is better to reward a next weeks key of the same level when you finished it in time, instead of always a -1.

[Tahen-pozzo-delleternità]

I don’t think it would affect much players.
I mean, i rarely use my own keys unless they’re nice ones, so starting again from a 9 or a 10 does not makes that much difference.

Maybe tuned the titan residuum gain?