I dabbed into M+ just for the mount honestly I did not see any toxcity and cant remember a time when someone left early… maybe one time when the healer kept dying to the first boss of Atal but was kinda understandable
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Weird, I’ve not had anyone leave my keys till i moved into the 22+ bracket.
And there its mostly just part the game if its not timed, because thats why people do those keys.
And even then, quite often it’s just a silly mistake that caused the wipe, and the people are more than willing to do another key instead.
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No, it’s actually high.
People that don’t ever get targeted by mechanics and then they just breeze through it because others do it for them and then when they do get targeted, they just flop and wipe the group. I’ve encountered DPS in +23 fall that doesn’t know they need to run into the light zone with the debuff on the 2nd boss, “I’ve never been the target of it before”, bruh. Bro did a +15, a +17, a +18, a +19, a +20 and a +22 and had never been targeted by it and then he got targeted in the +23 and failed instantly.
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Edit: ok this is more accurate of a representation of what I was trying to say now. You can read it now 
Edit: Sorry I am editing I did not finish writing this and accidentally posted it
If you reached the range of 18-20 without learning all the dungeons, then it is your job to either read on them or atleast COMMUNICATE to the group what to expect.
To be fair, people expect runs in the range of 10-14 to be for learning tactics.
Never been to anything above +16 so far.
I am only playing for 3 weeks (or so) and I leveled like 6 characters to 60 (leveling was really fun for me) and 3 to 70 I am not that good or far yet. But I do communicate it and the responses even though <+15 in 98% (just an guesstimation ofcourse as is almost any number I mention here probably) of the times I played were usually NOT nice. The most frequent thing that happened was no response or reaction at all, which is fine but not really “nice”, except sometimes leaving, sometimes in the middle of the dungeon due to a single wipe or a question or whatever else indicated to the person its not worth continuing the run.
Mind you: it needs only ONE person leaves and it is gg. Because: You cannot find another to fill the gap like in true LFG within like 1 min. Which would be enough to probably clear the dungeon still, even timed (at least on the occasions I encountered).
Even during LEVELING people were flaming (me and others) in dungeons and sometimes even leaving, albeit much more rarely. In M+ it was like every 2nd or 3rd run so far. In M+, in my experiences so far, it was rampant in comparison to that.
Would it be as rare as during leveling I would not have come here to write a topic in first place. Because everybody is having a bad day at some point, if it is as frequent as it was in M+ I must be either really bad of a person, really unlucky or, which I think is more likely, there are inherent design flaws.
I generally tend to communicate a lot as in trying to find a solution to a problem quickly if there was one wipe and I did not fully understand why we wiped. There is not much communication coming back in these cases, most of the time.
Often when I would tell people that I am not a pro before the dungeon, I would get one of three responses:
- no response at all, just leavers or rude behaviour inside the dungeon if it does not work out like “Read guide” and then a leave after like a single wipe and trying to fix the issue. If I want to read I will grab me a book. I understand that you have to read if you literally do not understand something, but there is an ingame journal for that (and I did use that, after I learned it exists LOL (yes I actually did not know this even in M+ until someone linked an ability from a boss to me. Might have been introduced to it by ingame tutorials which I probably ignored or forgot after 2 seconds)).
- “its ok” but the same of the rest above
- Comments like “Are you serious? xD” + a subsequent leave (mostly before the dungeon started so leaving is fine ofc) Especially remembering one time where I asked a specific question about a SINGLE mechanic of a SINGLE boss where I got that response → and then people leave again.
Sadly the only working fix is to play with people that you know or people from within a closed community who have a reputation to consider.
At least until and if solo queue M+ ever becomes a thing.
As about the loot…
It is a problem as old as the first big patch in Legion… Blizzard decided that M+ was too generous in loot so they cut it down. Blizzard is determined that the great vault reward being the only loot for most of the cases is the way to go…
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I also think the timer isn’t really an issue
What I do think is an issue however is the reward structure, 2 pieces of loot for 5 people for a whole dungeon is just not enough, in the old days we used to get an item per boss, I say go back to that
Dungeons that have 3 bosses give 3 pieces of loot, dungeons that have 4 bosses give 4 pieces of loot
But even then when you reach the point where the dungeons won’t give you upgrades and all you have is the vault, well thats where it has to change imo
Ideally the vault just gets entirely removed and just replaced with vendors for each of the three pillars it represents (m+, raiding and pvp), the only reason the vault is RNG is so that its not deterministic which is just the stretching out of time you need to get to the gear level you want artificially
the way I see it as long as there’s no vendor there’s no real point in picking up M+ if you’re not already invested in it, it’s just not rewarding nor respectful of your time the moment you hit the vault gate
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I don’t really have bad experience yet this season at all while pugging. But you can also just join open communities like no pressure or chill streak.
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I agree with @Durokx reply honestly.
While it may be true that in relation to other activities it has better drop rates, overall they are abysmally low. My weekly reward from the vault is by far the best loot (in terms of direct gear rewards) I got in the last week and this week too (I probably wont play until Wednesday). Last week, was my first week of m+ so I still had some catch up mechanics going that I think definitely exist because the drop rate was much higher at first for example with the spark stuff).
I don’t see the problem with the gold increase at all. Botting is rampant in this game in any case but the worse thing and much more lucrative thing especially for gold sellers is the services chat that is full of (most often automated, from low level characters) spam for paid runs and GDKPs and stuff. I am pretty sure that is by FAR the best gold farming method there is considering just how much spam there is about it.
And the harder dungeons get the harder it is to make an actual bot that can run through it. I doubt it would be a problem in higher keys. People might use “bots” to increase their own ability just like people do in league of legends with scripting or in shooters with aimbots and wallhacks, but true bots, these dungeons become way to difficult for in my opinion especially considering there is also RNG involved from what I can tell.
This is what I will do if I muster the will to go through learning how to network with them
Loot
In a raid you get one item per five players and that loot is anything off the loot table regardless of whether or not a player can use it. You then roll against everyone who can press need.
Mythic plus in contrast drops two items per run regardless of the timer, the items always respect the class and spec of the players present. It is the fastest way to gear up a character. Ofc if you are targetting one specific drop it can be frustrating and you have to go back repeatedly, but you can go back repeatedly.
In raid you get one shot at loot. For example for five weeks running Smoderon has not dropped the trinket I need. It is my bis. In contrast the trinket from AD I could farm. People will usually trade unwanted loot in m plus. They will also go with friends/guildmates to try to target something specific for each other. For example I tend to have Holy loot spec for WM because I can drop the Balefire Branch that way.
Timer
The point of M+ is that you are up against the clock. To start with you wont notice the timer in low keys. A timer is not toxic.
At the start of the season I probably had more depleted keys because the aim was to gear up to be able to raid, and if you’re close enough to the timer it will still give score. If I try to push a key now (within my range) people can only gain score, we have outgrown the loot so people are more likely to not bother if the timer isn’t going to be met. It’s just wasting everyone’s time. For vault keys we just blast through.
People can be toxic in any circumstance. I personally don’t enjoy PvP but I would never seek to remove that content or change the way it works from others who do enjoy it. My most salty experience was back in Legion when I was getting the recolours of my Mage Tower weapon and had to get a number of RBG wins. So much rage and blame 
. It really can happen in any part of the game.
Learning
I don’t know what range of keys you are trying to do but if you are still learning there are friendly communities out there that are rage free. You would also have to remain rage free yourself though.
If you are looking for others in a similar score range etc you can also join here
If you don’t understand the dungeons, there are a wealth of resources online explaining how they work, or simply build up through the key levels. Different weeks also have different affixes which affects how groups run keys. Most are fairly straight forward but there are some packs you may want to avoid etc.
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You type in a LFG channel “i got x key, who wants to join?”. This forum is harder to use.
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they are only interested in that you log in once a month.
MAU
sub
rest doesn’t matter
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I kind of got a general idea of the problems you might encounter.
First of all, you are playing as a tank, which frankly is a good thing, but creates a small problem with the way you are playing.
The thing is that because you are the only tank in your runs, it can be VERY hard to see your “mistakes”. As a dps it is quite easy, but as a tank if you take a “wrong” path, use your defensives/offensives wrong or fail at some mechanics, it is not easy to understand, because you do not see how it is done “right”.
Generally the easiest way to improve as a tank ironically is to play as a dps/healer, to see how other tanks play.
And now for the second thing:
I see that you are well articulated and pretty polite/reasonable, have you tried looking through wowprogress/raiderio/forums for communities or guilds that do casual m+ ?
It can be lifesaving for people like you, because it is exactly like minded people that do not like wasting time with leavers, are ok with taking it slow, and like to meet and play with others.
I think that most of the time is it a better time investment to look for a group like that, than to make forum posts (not that we do not enjoy making small talk in the forums, just purely from a problem solving point of view).
Edit:
Punyelf pasted exactly what I was talking about. Best course of action to join such a community.
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Ideally the vault just gets entirely removed and just replaced with vendors for each of the three pillars it represents (m+, raiding and pvp), the only reason the vault is RNG is so that its not deterministic which is just the stretching out of time you need to get to the gear level you want artificially
Or another idea: replace it with the rewards, ideally more rewards, but of different quality so it does not break the progress by making it too fast, actually dropping from the bosses (in my opinion it feels much better to get a reward directly from killing a boss) and in case you really badly want the option to choose from a set of items, just make a popup window that lets you choose one of several rewards.
It’s not like the vault is better because you can choose an item, it is just as RNG as it would be to just kill 3 bosses and get a drop instead, but at least you could sell the other 2 items to a vendor in case you didn’t need it or you can choose one of the 2 but the other 2 get auto-sold.
And in case people are afraid of the player to player trade of said items which results in sharing is caring which may make progress too fast in turn, you could restrict it so that only a certain amount of gear drops is actually tradeable per week. But even at the current state the GDKP / paid run stuff is so rampant it would not make any difference to the situation even if you implement this without some kind of trade restriction, I think.
I agree, but the issue is that I think the item is pulled from a very large pool of every boss you’ve killed as a part of that reward structure which can mean a lot of items and you only get to pull 1 item from that pool a week, but they’re the only way to get past a certain ilvl checkpoint if that makes sense.
I don’t mind the boss RNG of, kill boss > it drops something from its relatively limited loot pool, you can kill a boss multiple times a week too so there’s that.
My distaste for the weekly vault was a full season in BFA where I never got an upgrade from it, it always gave the same slot on which I already had a heroic raid gear item from a weekly dungeon quest.
Shadowlands I was willing to try it again but after 4 weeks of just garbage items I decided to give up for the rest of that expansion too and while I would like to go back to M+ I just can’t take the current rewardstructure serious.
Basically RNG from bosses is about as much as I’m willing to accept, anything more then that (RNG forging + weekly chest/vault) is too much for me and I just check out of the content entirely
Your solution would absolutely be a better one to what we have now though, if the rewards of the dungeons were upped to compensate for the removal of the vault and the end of dungeon reward you can get is unique to the dungeon (so its not again like a pool of 200 potential items which you have to be lucky to pull the 1 thing you need from) then yeah I’d see this improving the status quo as well
Ideally I do want the justice and valor vendors (and honour/conquest for pvp) back
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This is interesting. How common are actually GDKP runs? Is there a way to make some sort of educated guess? Because I’ve never done one and I don’t think I know anyone who has ever done one. Would be nice to know.
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I mean to get a feeling for it at least, see services chat. If you have it enabled and do not see the spam, I would like to know which realm you are on becauase I would like to join
I guess you would have to ask people who offer paid runs to get an educated guess, preferably more than one or two.
But it is certainly more than enough to make people create and pay for numerous accounts spamming /4 all day and all night with automation and the risk of that account being banned for automating the posting of the messages on each separate account or character after each cooldown.
The spam is the reason I left the services channel 
It greatly improves the experience of being in Valdrakken.
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This is really just not true though, especially not before you’re well past what is needed for maximum vault rewards.
None of the timers this season are tight at level 20, and definitely not lower.
Bruh.
The amount of prot paladins I see with sotr at like 50-60% uptime is insane when pugging keys to fill vault. Paper tanks.