M+ "LFG" is kinda toxic and people quit rather frequently, right? Here is why and how to fix it

Yeah, that everbloom we did was an absolute mess too.

When people aren’t what you’d expect for the content level it’s best to just stay quiet about it and maybe mention something after the run if it’s a success, otherwise I tend to not rock the boat or just leave if things are truly beyond hope.


It was an Everbloom again!!!

Leaving a key is not more immoral than joining a key without knowing all the tactics by heart. Just as you choose to learn the dungeons by playing them, others exercise their right to leave the key.

For this one I want to say, I know that this is exactly what you and others “feel” like which is what my suggestions were aimed at and I did point it out myself, that it would be like you are literally wasting other peoples time, nonetheless I would cite myself for additional reasoning:

Okay I am not saying there is no subjective line of ridiculousness to be drawn ever, but my point is: if someone got to a level of key with random people the chances he does not belong there is very, very low. And if they got there without knowing a mechanic then they do not belong there any less. Chance of being there on accident is just as low as the chance you went to challenger in league or whatever arbitrary rank above your skill, by accident. Which invalidates any flame as in “you are required to know X” you or others may have of your teammates or yourself. They are in all likelihood just as good or bad as you are thats what matters. Especially in high elo, because the higher the elo the lower the chances you are there by accident. If however timing it would not be the goal that has to be achieved, but finishing it would be, then one could just explain it to the people instead of getting mad and frustrated at them not knowing what they should know by anyones arbitrary standards.

LoL is a VERY different game, since riot itself has a mmr rating and control over the queue. In wow m+, everyone has full control over who to invite on their own keys.

Which makes leaving or mistreating said player or group even worse than in league of legends. Because in league of legends it is quite literally riots fault, that you are matched with someone.

Rio was introduced as an addon by the community because they saw it had value. Leaverio or whatever hasn’t been created for a reason. If you disagree and believe that an addon like that would be beneficial to the game, feel free to create it.

The matter of fact is, you have options to figure out if I am a good player or not to avoid noobs, but I do not have any means to know whether you are a toxic ragequitter or not. So it is not my burden to choose the right group or players, it is the leavers burden to choose the correct companions that do not make them leave.

Toxic rage quitters will always be like that, no matter what. People are either toxic cry babies or they aren’t.

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Kinda offtopic but I wanted to ask anyway: why is everything you post green?

I’m one of the forum MVPs

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Ah… I was wondering why you soloed me out, and kept being passive aggressive in every reply.

You are the type of player, who borderlines being toxic by being passive aggressive. So “technically you aren’t toxic”… And then when a person calls you out on it, you turn it around on them instead, and manipulate the group into kicking them.

WORST kind of WoW player there is. I have met plenty of people like you. Getting new players kicked left and right for not knowing mechanics, etc…

Grats for baiting a reply. Now go back to being toxic in game instead.

You do not even know me and have never played with me. But you are just calling everyone who plays M+ toxic while yourself not playing M+.

Whatever floats your boat :dracthyr_shrug:

I also literally have never kicked anyone from any group in whatever content and i am long time part of failtrain where we wipe and learn together. I have also unlimited lower keys done to help out players for weeklies and on voice i have explained dungeons. There is a reason i try to get people to communities like No Pressure. Go ahead with your assumptions :+1: I am the toxic one here because i am playing M+.

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Do you think I’m that kind of players who stops at +20? :face_with_raised_eyebrow: try it… go to EB+25 tyrannical and tell me how long the 4th boss last! Go to Rise and tell me how long Tyr lasts. What about Iridikron? :face_with_raised_eyebrow: what about the third boss EB where you have to triangulate the coordinate for a lunar landing every time she casts?
What about Galakrond where you have to predict where to stand, keeping focus on ball cd, the puddles, freeing the frozen ally, focus on the fire, focus on the frontal, avoiding the puddles… madness in high keys.
Oh and what about the trash in dungeons on fortified week? If you miss a leech innervate it’s the apocalypse?

What would happen if the bosses were less messy and much easy? People will still push keys up to a limit but they will have more fun and less toxicity “tank you suck because we wiped on a one shot mechanic”. “Healer you suck because the boss oneshotted me”. “You suck because DPS is low”… how many times have you seen this?

Sorry but no.

Elo or mmr works because you play with opponents that have an equal chance of wining (if played at the same level). You increase or decrease your mmr depending on your win%, depending on how often you win or lose those team games.

In wow you play vs environment, and the winrate decreases as you gain levels. Because your rio counts as just the highest completed keys, ANY player can increase his rio without knowing any tactics, simply by letting his teammates carry him. Only at high key levels (meaning 23-25+) all 5 players need to perform at a good level to not be able to time the key otherwise.

This is why you cannot compare wow m+ with LoL. One of them is designed as a pvp game with matchmaking of teams of equal skill (that each team is supposed to have a 50-50 chance of winning), and the other is a pve game that starts with a REALLY high chance to win, that scale into almost impossible chance of winning.

Your assumption that if someone that has reached let’s say +21 level is assumed to know the tactics of that level is just plainly wrong. It is way too easy for someone to be boosted by people (even by randoms in lfg), and reach that level, without having much of an idea of what he is doing.
This is the reason that the most important metric to gouge the skill of a player if you want to do a weekly 20, is the number of runs he has timed above 20 (way more important than rio score).

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I mwan these are fair points and even though I have had a different experience so far I will give you this one for lack of experience on my part. My experience has been that there is barely ever more than a single person if there is one at all, that does underperform for the level, often even only on specific situations. Something like a basically disfunctional healer or whatever have been very rare.

There have been quite a few disagreements in what has to be done though. For example the Boss Tyr, on my priest at 15 or 16 I do kot remember, I do not soak currently because I noticed after a couple times that it I am almost oneshot when I do and barely cause any reduction to the mates damage, frankly not enough to comoensate for the dmg I took which sometimes even was a literal oneshot aka me dead unable to heal any further beyond my passive. Maybe I am doingnthe sooak wrong but I doubt it. I went where everyone goes and there is pretty obvious tornado. So I started not soaking and some people disagreed with it vocally even though it factually and objectively worked better than me soaking because I could easily heal it up in any case so far. Some person claimed in 26+ I must soak cause otherwise everyone dead not just me. We will see and if that is the case I adapt. Many people who had fought over how to do something in my group just seemed stubborn (including me on one occasion) and/or think there is only one solution to every problem because textbook said so.

It’s shared damage, if you don’t soak they all take more damage so yes they’d be a bit miffed at that.

If you took a “lot” of damage then its possible the converse happened, you soaked and others didn’t increasing the damage you took.

I don’t know what flavour of priest you play but they all have tools to take less damage. If you don’t use it there on that fight, then where else would you use it?

People generally know what works now from experience. It’s shared knowledge and an accepted way of doing things. Occasionally we all see things that make us think “Gosh, thats a smart way of approaching something” then we communicate before the key starts. “Hey, we’re used to doing this mechanic like this but lets change it up”. But lets be realistic here, you were likely proposing a bad solution where a good one exists.

Reply for Dejarous the stuff didn’t work on mobile yet again.

I didn’t mean it that way. I was not the one proposing it first, although I had the idea as well but didn’t suggest it anyway, but a person more experienced than me suggested it and I agreed and it worked very well so I continued doing it. I played it and if I cared enough about proving my point that this person actually had a brain I could record it for you the next time I get to murzonds and you would probably point out to the soak version for comparison that I am soaking but somehow soaking wrong nonetheless and therefore the damage or maybe another teammate was missing except me and I did not notice. And it doesn’t really matter. The smart thing to do is what works best in any given context and situation and if the mates are incapable of of helping to soak and kill myself who helps soak, so it works better if I spam heals to outheal the damage instead of helping and killing myself then thats the smartest thing to do in that situation.

What else should I have done? Flame them? Leave? Nah we made it work thanks to the suggestion of the tank.

I am not that much of a dumbass. I know that I have defensives and I used them before the Boss punches the ground. But again, maybe my position was still wrong, who knows. Maybe my mates did not use defense as you pointed yourself too, because they tended to lose about 50% hp with all of us soaking and myself 60-100% with 430 to 445 gearscore back then. When I did not soak as the single person, the mates were getting the same amount of damage and I could use protrctive measures on them. And I had no downtime of moving to the soak. I could spam flash heal and whatever. There is literally no way I see that moving into the soak would have been better in that specific situation than the way I did it from there on EXCEPT one or more membes being literally one shot from 100 to 0. On later attempts at the dungeon it worked nicely too and when I notice it stops working I will adapt again.

You were probably suggested to not soak when you still got the debuff with the big circle and not had full health.

Nope. What I learned to do is I cleanse the circle. I cleanse it on one person (if it is on me, usually me while quickly patching up the other person) then let the other run out and use further cleanses for spirits who tend to have spawned by then this past week. Unless the others cleanse the spirits then I cleanse the other person too but one after another so the burst is not at the same time. Generally mostly full hp when I went to soak.

Well, then i do not understand that someone ‘with a brain’ advices to not soak a split-damage soak mechanic. You ignore the mechanic and put the life of other people at risk. It is not a +26 mechanic.

Well, here are my 2 cents to it Mistjo: This game is pretty dynamic so the past few times I did it that way may have worked better than soaking for some reason that neither of us may have noticed, other than it working better that way in general or it maybe working better in general on lower keys, I will come back to that point later in these thoughts of mine.

Generally it is also possible that you are simply wrong about a mechanic working in one way and no other on any arbitrary level of difficulty. While there certainly are mechanics that are as deterministic as that (for example, just as a simple and stupid example, if you do not do thing X the boss is god mode and will never leave it so you have to do thing X to continue fight) but there are also mechanics that are non-deterministic enough to work differently given different dynamic situations for example the current state of someone as you pointed out yourself like for example the person running to the soak not being full life and likely dead if helping and not being patched up before etcetera. pp.

Especially a split damage thing would make sense in case for example, as was the case by observing it while playing it, me taking too much damage but my damage share being split onto 4 other people as additional damage not being remotely enough problematic for me to not heal it in the blink of an eye by spamming flash heal like a minigun and placing this aoe thing on the ground as well as shielding whoever before the burst happens etcetera or in worst case I feel like I may not be able to switch targets fast enough with flash heal use that divine hymn thing.

I firmly believe this is one of the things that may very well change with these mythic plus multipliers, just as pulling the entire dungeon if you are overgeared works fastest on lower keys or old content compared to doing it all “right” or instead of focusing some adds you are supposed to focus due to it being the mechanic, just killing the boss works faster and better because you deal so much damage some times.

In my opinion and the person may very well be right that at +26 this mechanic deals so much damage that any single person not soaking to keep themselves alive will cause that much more damage split on the other four that it becomes impossible to do it the way I did earlier.

Yeah while reading, it crossed my mind how mechanics can be trivial and can simply be brute forced depending on your group and what you are doing exactly. In that sense you’re definitely not wrong.

I think when you bump into situations like this, it’s helpful tho to go back and figure out what the issue was. May be that the group was not executing something properly, may be that your character was not geared enough yet (and undergeared priests can feel rather squishy…), may be that you have missed a talent or spell that’d help in that situation etc.

Even if something is trivial or not relevant enough right now, with the way M+ scales at some point it’s probably going to be very relevant! :wink: And then you profit from understanding why you can ignore something under what circumstances, or why not. Understanding what you’re supposed to do, and why, can help in the long run.

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I wouldn’t say the issue is M+ specifically, its just other people you will find in the ingame dungeon finder and other baseline ingame groupfinding tools
my breaking point was leveling in dungeons in BFA, after I managed to heal a DPS through what is supposed to be a death mechanic they decided to ignore I got threatened by the tank to get kicked for slacking cause that dps came really close to dying multiple times (because they were standing in a deathzone)

so I left the group immediately after that threat because why would I stick around after that and I never pugged again, not the only itteration tho, had some of these things happen in m+ but it was never just in m+

This was 2 expacs ago tho, status quo might be different but the taste in my mouth is so sour I’d rather just not find out

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I mean you are definitely right I do it in LoL too, I mean I would if I played ranked :slightly_smiling_face: However I am not aware of any tools I have to go back. I would have to record it myself I guess. Shenanigans like these have to wait a month or so until my exams are done and I can buy me a gaming pc without compromising IRL progress :rofl: