M+ lower keys are harder than higher keys

Community General Discussion
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I play holy paladin…
in my keys that range between 8-10 i complete runs with around 4-500k hps with little to no stress och pressure what so ever…

but when i play keys at 2-4 range… i end up at 5-600k hps… and i have to stay on my toes all the time…

Dps dont interrupt.
Dps eat every god damn avoidable mechanic.
Dps pushes 500k dps overall with 605 -615 ilvl (Sorry, im still figure out rotation)
Tanks uses about 1 survival cd during the entire run.

I can finally understand why healers are so pissed at this season…

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Oh dont worry healer in low keys are as bad as the rest.
I left my own SoB the other day out of desperation.

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This thread is another proof why missed interrupts or not moving out of fire should change the penalty from large incoming damage to nerfing the player’s (or players’) damage output with a noticeable effect on the damage meter.

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For now i am all fine on my last week started mistweaver. But yeah people are of course less good than on higher keys.

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Who would have guessed that lesser skilled players make more mistakes and therefore increase the difficulty? Who would have guessed that.

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The problem is those lesser skilled players are trying to do keys outside of their skill range.

I joined a NW 10 on my prot paladin. Thought I’d get a weekly in.

Nope.

We kept wiping to lack of interrupts.

I was at 55 interrupts when the group disbanded.

Next person on the list was at 9 interrupts, then another was at 3 and the last one didn’t interrupt at all.

If I didn’t have avenger’s shield or interrupt ready, casts just went through.

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Because he is making up non sense… I farmed +8s on my disc with ilvl 579 in time while other people had the ilvl he mentions and nobody does 500k dps with this gear lol… while tanks are also extremely durable.
And I was gearing other healers in 2-4 range too, the hardest part is to get into the group, it’s not the dungeon itself. Even if people don’t interrupt, barely anything does any relevant damage here, while truly nobody does 500k overall… Meanwhile people sweat super hard about their low keys and want “overgeared” people, so with ~610 ilvl you are basically outgearing the content and it’s very hard to fail anyway.

Ye because after all the nerfs the difficulty is scuffed. You have in the 10-12 range people who basically did +4 pre nerfs. Is very hard right now to pick the right people because all the statistics we have available are pretty much useless. You should assume someone who did +11 in time is most likely ready for a +12 but that’s not even remotely the case. Just like someone who has +10 finished in time, just got lucky and accidently carried, even in pugs and is actually not even ready for a +10.

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Yeah the difficulty for m+ is like a bellcurve in pugs.

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I’m not sure that would fix it, people regularly try to brute force stuff without fully realising why it won’t work. Fights would drag out longer, healers would run into issues, people die, and then the healer gets blamed anyway :wink: I’d expect something like that lol.

Maybe the other way around might work tho. Have successful interrupts add a slight, short damage boost, the amount depending on the cd of their interrupt that a class/spec has. Perhaps if it’s more attractive as part of a rotation, instead of an obstacle in it, it might be used more often.

And an edit… I could see how that would lead to silly gameplay where people interrupt the smaller things on a shorter cd and then still don’t have it for the important stuff. I dunno!

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As the raid leader of Liquid said about this exact thing; that would be a much better problem to have than the problem we have now.

There just needs to be some way to get people to interrupt more in lower keys. An incentive works usually better than a punishment.

He also opted the idea to add like 3 special abilities in dungeons (spreaded throughout) where people will have to use a personal defensive cooldown. If they don’t; -10% damage done, or something along those lines. In the end this will give an incentive to press the defensives, just to get a bit higher on the meters.

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Let me guess you only inv Meta specs in low keys also?

Thats all fotm reroller who have no plan what to do, the same problem exist in +10 Keys. 627+GS and 500k overall DPS for example is not uncommon.

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thats not happening. stop the yap.

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yeah, the responsibility should come with more personal consequences of failure.
More stuns, disarms, fears etc. that impact on a player individually.

There would have to be some kind of training program to prepare DPS to teach them how to spot mechanics aimed at them and how to counter them (interupting, moving, defensive CD etc.).

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Yep. I think it’s sort of a by product of making everything faster over the years, the gameplay has changed fundamentally. I get why interrupts, cc’s, defensives and dispels get overlooked quite easily unless you learned early on these things matter, or if you decide to ‘git gud’. They seem like a hindrance in nice rotational flow.

I’m guessing it might work better if some of this stuff gets naturally baked in within a rotation, or adds proper incentive to use it. The fact you help your team unfortunately doesn’t seem incentive enough for everyone, and perhaps that mindset is too ‘oldschool’, I’m not sure.

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They’re meant to counter mechanics, they have to be triggered manually. And there is already incentive to use them, such as not wiping.

If people don’t want to learn that’s their problem, but it’s not an excuse to dumb down endgame for everyone.

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The issue is that it would still in turn impact the healer because the longer a boss would take to kill = More chances for the dps, the tank, and the healer to make mistakes.

And who fixes that mistake ?

Healers.

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We could try these, to reduce the stress on healers:

  • add noticable burst damage for successful interrupt spells
  • Maybe give a stacking damage buff for not taking damage, taking damage reduces the stacks
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Why people still like Classic Healing?

What changes the most?
Where was the point who Healer thought “No i switch to DPS” ?

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My earliest memory is from WotLK when healing felt like playing whack-A-mole with HP bars. Most spells pulled a DPS to 100% HP instantly and basically you were immortal if your healer had good reflexes.
During Cata it became “reverse DPSing” where you had to do a rotation to pump out any amount of healing. Then it kind of settled in the middle ground and got spiced with utility and dealing some damage.

I’m obviously not the right person to answer, since I’m still healing, but I’m pretty sure if you ask 10 former healers why they switched, you’ll get 10 different reasons.

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I still love healing, and I have fun with it. But M+ or higher end raiding are not for me, I don’t have the reflexes for all the running and dodging :wink: I got dragged into some of it years back by friends, and it went ok but I found it stressful. I prefer a slower format, where I actually have a few seconds to think and don’t need to hop around a lot of the time. Especially as a healer (altho the class matters there) seeing your team’s health drop while not being able to do much because of the running, sucks imho.

If I wanted to do M+, I’d never pug. I do know that lol. Everything being the healer’s problem seems decidedly unfun.