Fair. I didn’t notice that one. I think the first post of Jerby’s I read was after I joined the thread, when he said:
It reminded me of Shadowlands when the feral druid community was begging for a rework because the spec was utterly useless in mythic plus, but there were still a few feral players loudly claiming it was ‘absolutely fine’.
Hunter specs are not completely useless in mythic plus though, just because they are not meta right now doesn’t mean they are completely dead and useless.
And even if they were useless - this also doesn’t suddenly mean an ENTIRE CLASS REWORK is required. The fact is if hunter did slightly more damage it would suddenly be a meta spec, as we can see with S3/S4 survival hunter. There are a couple of things that could be done to improve the state of hunter, such as some kind of raid utility/buff to put it in line with others, and a slight tweak to how much damage MM/BM loses on a single target when switching to AoE talents, but aside from that it is generally fine.
The ‘Omg an entire spec rework is needed’ crowd are super overreacting, and all it does is contribute to the negative community perception that’s causing their issues in the first place.
Me: It reminded me of x (which is a personal ‘feeling’ experience)
Jerby: You’re wrong
Honestly, at my still humble level (starting on +15s this week), I find that my damage during “fight segments” is adequate, the various options I have for Crowd Control with Tar and Ice Traps, Calm, Intimidate, an Interrupt and of course Blood Lust already offer a lot of utility, but I cannot really say if all that actually matters in Raids, since I’ve done a grand total of TWO in LFR to validate the Campaign Quests of Dragonflight.
I think that the only thing I would like to be changed is a shorter cooldown on personnal defensive and Exhilaration (even if that last one can be reduced by spending Focus), because they are two to three times longer than every other Defensive I’ve seen, except maybe the various “active racials”.
180 seconds, or 154 seconds for two Talents points, is extremely long.
Of course I can Feign/Fake Death, but that also has its problems : if the main pet is dead, the secondary will continue to attack and respond to the few usual commands, and you have to wait at least a couple of seconds for the threat that forced you to “stop, drop and sleep” actually vanishes.
I can really live with slightly less damage while still being able to move around and dodge most things (well, those I learned so far), it’s the slightly less sturdy than a wet paper handkerchief combined with rather poor self-healing that hurts the most.
Did this thread get ridiculous for a single statement you don’t agree with?
Or is there more?
If so, could you elaborate better?
In any case, yes, I consider the Ice block to be decidedly superior to the Hunter’s turtle as a defensive Cd.
Certainly not useless but when compared to different classes it gets slapped.
Faced with a class that has long since been abandoned, do you really think the complaints are exaggerated?
More than anything else, it is YOUR PERCEPTION that is not shared by anyone and that you make an effort to say the exact opposite in the face of many evidences.
I understand that you are so in love with the Hunter but if you continue to defend it, considering it quite valid, you are not supporting the Hunter community in order to invite developers to reserve more attention to this class.
No its been ridiculous from your first post.
Jerby gives logic and you just give arm waving and hyperbole.
Its like youve taken a stance and no amount of common sense will make you deviate from your belief. I know in your mind youre giving well reasoned rebuttals but i just find 99% of what you say 
Each to their own i guess.
I cannot believe this guy genuinely believes that he is the one providing evidence. I don’t know if we are being trolled or he does not understand what the word means.
Edit: Since you guys love tier lists so much, how about this one? It’s based on m+ data as opposed to your favourite youtubers giving subjective takes on class balance. https://mplus.subcreation.net/index.html
Both BM + SV looking fairly decent in m+ here.
With this stupid answer, you really proved your worth 
When I asked you to substantiate your statements, perhaps with a logical answer, you limited yourself to mentioning Jerby and continued to spit like the classic insulting Troll attitude.
If some arguments seem like for you, try to argue instead of shooting zero.
Correction, shut up, you make a better impression.
But it is trivial to label your interlocutor as a troll just because he thinks differently from you.
Now I understand that this is the best you can do…
Good Job Bro.
I’ll simply answer that the range is too vast, in fact the M+ range from 16+ to 27+.
Also you selected a specific Affix, whereas you should have selected “All Affix” and magically the Hunter drops to rank B .
Anyway, I would like you to reflect on a few points.
Do you really believe that Runs are a reliable index of the situations in which a particular class is?
If so, why is the Hunter Bm in Rank B and MM even in Rank F?
Didn’t we say until now that Hunter BM and MM are in the same condition?
Would seeing the Hunter MM in class F mean that it sucks compared to the Hunter Bm which is in class B?
Of course not…
This is to say that the number of Runs informs you that class is played a lot or a little and not on its general conditions.
And for the record, I never said that on paper the Hunter can’t do high M+ but I wanted to discuss its weaknesses which should be reviewed by the developers.
Weak points of the Hunter that you all deny because you are not impartial and too enthralled by your Hunter
Not because he thinks differently to me, but because he talks about evidence whilst providing absolutely zero. I don’t know how you don’t see the irony in this.
It’s almost like you go absolutely searching desperately for ways to complain about the statistics just to try and keep your point of view. It’s really sad.
It makes…absolutely no difference whatsoever. The fact you think the ‘Tier letter’ is what matters in this is frankly absurd. In both instances it’s mid-pack in regards to other specs. Nothing changes. I have never seen somebody desperately grasp at straws as hard as you are doing.
…What?
BM is much stronger than MM in m+ right now. That’s why it’s statistically higher. Pretty logical.
Why on earth do you think i’m not impartial and you are? I genuinely want an answer to this.
You are the one that is absolutely one tricking BM hunter, refusing to play any other class or spec, and clearly heavily invested in BM. Does this not make you biased at all? Whereas for me, I play all 3 specs, infact I do 20+ weekly keys every week on 8 different classes, I don’t particularly have strong reasons to not be impartial. I played warlock on mythic sarkareth recently because it was better on that fight than hunter, I am not tied + biased towards one spec over something else.
So what on earth about this makes you the impartial one?
You see irony,
I, on the other hand, only read the words of an arrogant fanatic who always wants to be right.
Answered the one who thinks that the hunter’s only problem is
And I would add, not caring about everything else.
Ah, whoever complains about the Hunter belongs to the “doomer club” 
Putting aside your compulsive way of using the same terms (desperately, ironic, sad, absurd etc.), could you explain to me what you take into consideration?
Much strongher?
Simple question :
Where does it show that at the moment the hunter Bm is much stronger than the MM?
What does it mean?
That in the overall dps a Bm closes 140k while the MM only 100k ? (an example)
Even much stronger despite the latest buff given to the MM?
How impartial have you been on the subject of defensive CDs?
This has been universally recognized as a Hunter problem but only you think otherwise.
How do you prove it?
Ah yes,linking Data on death Raid
And it was me who was climbing, desperately, on the mirrors 
Or maybe the exact opposite because I know it very well?
Usual conjectures, in Jerby style, of which I don’t understand the meaning or the sense.
Other class for what reason?
But it’s not a question of playing another spec or another class that puts you on a level of more or less impartiality but it’s the answers you give to certain questions that don’t make you so. (defensive cd and recovery time, AI Pet etc).
And there have also been some interventions that follow this line but it hasn’t helped because you stay with your ideas and convictions.
Enough to resort to free insults.
And quoting one of the many expressions used by you (yes, you gave your best) how “pathetic” this situation is ?
My jaw has dropped at the insane stupidity on almost every single thing you type.
You think i’m not impartial…because I disagree with you? What?
Yeah you know it so well you complain about defensives whilst not actually using the ones you do have.
If anybody in the thread is actually interested in a discussion rather than this guy typing ‘im right and a few people think I am so therefore i must be right’ over and over and over, whilst ignoring all available data and statistics, feel free.
Every time you offend, using free insults, I realize how poor you are as a person.
I already answered, read better.
You are a broken record, you always say the same untruthful things.
Change register you’re bored
Few people?
Apart from the fact that there are not a few people who think like me but many, you are one of the very few if not the only one who thinks differently.
Above all available data with no reliability but only bad interpretation.
If everyone else wants to consider all of Jerby’s pseudo-statistics, feel free too
Great, they have the choice between my data/statistics, and your feelings. Glad we have the options covered.
Like an improvised scientist who believes the world is flat.
And it also brings its data/statistics
Cit. “After all, the world may be round but the earth, seen from the airplane, is flat…”
The irony here is you are on the side of pure feelings. You ARE the flat earth side 
As entertaining as this has been to read, my progress on Mythic Experiments last night showed how we hunters struggle with sudden spikes in damage, unless they happen to coincide with our long defensives coming off of cd.
Anecdotal? yes, but also says to me that really they could comfortably halve the CDs on our defensives.
Hey man?
But do you always use the same words in sentences?
Are you obsessive compulsive?
The pseudo-scientist replied
I confess that it was fun for me too 
Does the hunter suffer from lack of self-care over time?
Difficult answer…
Be careful how you answer because it’s definitely feeling.
Noooo!!
Did you mention the half-life of CDs?
Beware that there is a witch hunt and someone may be monitoring your game logs.
It didn’t take…
Noooo!!
Did you mention the half-life of CDs?
Beware that there is a witch hunt and someone may be monitoring your game logs.
It didn’t take…
Sorry I don’t understand your post at all, but I suffer from a mental health condition that makes some jokes make very little sense to me.
I just think from my own time in the game, that we need to reduce the cool downs. That fight was a nightmare because it has sudden spiking damage that we can’t easily cope with. I didn’t see anything like it in the other difficulties
Basically I fully agree with you and I sincerely hope that one day these CDs can be halved.
At least the shield that has exaggerated recovery times and maybe more self-healing.
How was my answer stupid?
A hunter can move while immune, soaking bombs or mushrooms to make a fight easier. A mage cannot.
Using this FACT, let us compare to your ‘feeling’ that iceblock is better. Why?
And im stupid? Evidence and facts, you ignore them and go with feelings.