First of all, there is nothing wrong in trying to stay positive in a class you play and trying to make good in what it has. There is nothing ‘defensive’ about that.
And don’t flail the flag of moral superiority there. From what you have been posting and behaving like, you are not the objective example here. Clarity in this context is looking at one’s points equally and fairly.
Simply put: Don’t throw hands and not expect an opposition.
But… if evidence and details is all superficial to you, then what is acceptable?
The fact that Hunter sucks and provides nothing? Okay.
Well, yes? Because it shows what you CAN do to help out and push content to success. If you can solve a certain issue by exploring what you can do against it, you come out more effectively, no?
That is how efficiency is tested and thus narrow and cut down the list of negatives. By knowing the weaknesses of a class and knowing its strengths, you can contribute to a far greater extent. Like Disengaging out of the bad, out of entangle, scare beast + frost traps against Incorporeal, Aspect of the Turtle against deadly mechanics or even outright skipping them.
This is the same for every other class out there who has their own toolkit.
Trust me, if Jerby was only spouting the difficulties of a class without making insights of what it can and cannot do, I wouldn’t be their ‘Defense attorney’.
This isn’t a war, nor a court room, nor an attack. Please stop trying to find an enemy where there isn’t. The simple fact that I am not supporting your side of the story is because you offered nothing but listing the flaws and why no-one should play a non-meta class.
Guild. Community. Friends. Circles.
I know the pains and struggles of pugging ever-increasing higher keys. That’s why I stopped progressing through that system.
You seriously can’t think that the only way to play M+ is through the picky, difficult, biased and highly controversial world of pugging…
The hilarious irony of this entire thread is by posting all this, it just pushes the community perception to further think hunter is terrible, which will then lead to even less invites for himself and other hunters.
And his response to finding a team to play with is ‘It’s not correct’, LMAO. After reading this I think it might actually be an elaborate joke.
It’s weirdly amusing. But yeah, he’s gone around in circles so many times he eventually actually came to the answer and then just flat out refused it lol. He can’t pug, and he refuses to find a team, so i’m not sure what his plan is honestly.
Of course not, but when the negative aspects make themselves felt and they are perceived by many, why not point them out in a forum?
I don’t even feel remotely like the one who flag of moral superiority .
You rather, standing up as a defender of Jerby’s comments, would you be a moral example or the example of objectivity?
You are not in impartial position, so avoid lecturing me on morals.
What opposition?
That of effectively denying that Hunter’s defensive cds, considering them good only for Jerby?
Stop being Jerby’s parrot.
You don’t use the Hunter, you don’t know it and you claim the right to know its peculiarities, strengths and weaknesses.
No, because you are just generalizing and not addressing the specific point.
It is one thing to argue using that class, subject of discussion, and another thing is to speak using generic phrases just for the sake of doing it or to seek some form of visibility in this thread.
First of all, you should also know the opinion of those who really use the Hunter and of all the times who have complained about the inefficiency of defensive cds, and about the negative perception that revolves around this class.
What you want to label as my problem is not only mine but felt by many.
Simply ask the key leaders why they avoid inviting the Hunter.
Or even know the thoughts of those who play the aforementioned class.
Or even, just read the countless threads opened in the American Blizzard forum.
Until you have not all this information at your disposal you will remain just Jerby’s poor lawyer and you will only be able to answer with generic and superficial sentences.
And what are you offering?
Support for Jerby by not even touching the Hunter’s difficulties?
I also replied to this, it was enough to pay more attention to some of my previous posts
But what war and what enemy?
I only see a user who is so in love with their class that they deny anything that is wrong.
Yet there was an intervention by a user, who made a complete examination of most of the defensive cds of many classes, which moreover it uses, arguing that those of the Hunter actually remain behind.
And he didn’t just talk about Meta class CDs…
The Hunter class hasn’t been in a happy oasis lately and has been the subject of a lack of attention for a long time.
But you can stay calm with your ideas considering it fine and with defensive cds that have nothing to envy to those of the other classes.
I am strongly convinced that yours is the classic ostrich attitude that sticks its head in the ground, that doesn’t listen to other people’s opinions and that anyone who thinks differently from you doesn’t know how to play and that they have personal problems on the class Hunter.
Oh I forgot…
the one who gasses as soon as someone intervenes and gives credit to your arguments without knowing the class in question.
Because it’s convenient for you to make it sound like my problem and not a general Hunter problem.
It is not to difficolut to understand but with you…
After this statement of yours, I lose all hope with you.
Peace and love
Well i’ll be damned, I might have actual in game statistics to back up my argument, but you’ve got…key leaders of other classes (why would they know anything about hunters???) and…other people on battle net forums complaining? Damn bro, some sick evidence you’ve got there.
It is pointless to argue about this for days now. Both of you have some truth but also have some **** too in your points.
There are some problems with hunter Def cds? Only the long cooldowns. There are nothing to redesign, blizz just have to make those cooldowns shorter and everything should be fine. Or just fuse Feign Death with the survival tactics pvp talent, it would be great for good players, idiots couldnt manage this 1,5sec 90% damage reduct at the right time anyway, they dont even knows when must use their cds, but they want to push higher and higher keys whiteout learning any mecahnics.
Jerby you are right about that many players dying in avoidable stupid things, but you should have to accept the fact that those cooldowns are very long.
And the title of this topic, this was also discussed before, so there is no need to bring this up again. The opinion of the hunter will not improve as long as it remains such a popular class, as long as so many idiots play with it, even the few good ones have a hard time to get any invitations too.
I wouldn’t call the hunter a difficult class, all 3 specs can be very good in good players hands, but let everyone decide for themselves why the 90% of them are useless even with high RIO and 440+ gear.
I can see I will never get anywhere with this, so i’ll just quit it here. There isn’t a point to discuss nor argue when a foregone conclusion is already decided upon.
Pleasure to have been your lawyer, Jerby. Apparently.
Well, I would nuance that : all three Hunter spec look easy, and at lower character levels in outside world PvE content, it is indeed easy enough to level a character quickly, they have a great deal of appeal because of the Ranger/Aragorn aspect and feeling, but in actual “virtual” reality, knowing and mastering all the little bits that make the spec really work is much harder than it looks, even more so in “high level content” (I’m not there yet, just managed to reach 2K M+ Score yesterday with 6 out of 8 dungeons timed in +14), and you have to add to that the knowledge needed for M+ mechanics that make or break instances runs.
In short : easy to start, almost too easy, but very hard to master.
So, yes indeed, the class is popular, yes indeed you’ll see high score 440+ Hunters very often, but alas a very small percentage of those actually know what they are doing.
Again, I’m not a “pro hunter”, at least not yet, but I can recognize my errors, learn, and work on myself to get better.
In my own personnal, anecdotal, satistically irrelevent experience, those useless hunters with high scores and 440+ gear have found a guild, group, community, friends that “pulled them up” but they did not “suffer for their gains” and lack the deciding factors : knowledge of their class/spec and dungeon/raid mechanics.
I know that a bit too well, I was pulled up myself during Shadowlands by people that wanted to go to 20+ keystones, but that guild only had a very small number of active players while I was there everyday; so I followed orders, climbed quite high, learned nothing.
Cherry on the cake : when I told them “please stop, I’ve hit a wall, I understand nothing and I need to go back to the basics to actually get better”, I was booted out of the guild for “not being competitive enough”.
Irony : if I’m an horrible useless Hunter, because I don’t know enough yet, I will never be competitive.
For the record, after I got ejected, I did indeed go back to very low keys (like, +2 and climbing by one level after a couple of dozen runs in each instance) , I learned, got better, and was able to do +18/+20 keystones in PUGhell “pulling my weight” while that guild never managed to go above +15 without using the “pay to win” guild services.
Still, to finish this too long post, even after learning all I can (and I have still more to learn), I’m forced to manage around the weaknesses of the class and specs (namely, the horribly long cooldowns of Personnal Defensives, horribly long cooldowns of Crowd Controls), and I’m a victim of the bad reputation of the class, and mostly the Beast Master spec, because of those “useless hunters” that powerleveled without learning.
If I’m able to outdamage and survive (thanks to things I learned in this very thread) specs like Shadow Priests and Retribution Paladins in +14 keystones, all the while still not knowing all the mechanics for the dungeons that are brand new to me (started in December 2021, remember, so anything before Shadowlands S2 is unknown to me), the conclusion should be that while the class/specs do have problems (no point in denying that, they are obvious, most cooldowns are three times longer that all other classes and specs), it boils down to “community perception” for not being invited in higher keystones, and “personnal reputation” at the individual level.
Of course you’ll find cement-headed, META fanatics that flat out refuse Hunters just because they are Hunters in the game, with the amount of players it’s basically guaranteed, but when you finally get accepted, it’s the moment to prove yourself as competent, useful and competitive.
Doing that myself, I managed to get roughly a dozen people asking me for “friendship by Battle Tag”, saying “a good hunter is rare to find, you still have to learn, but we’re willing to play with you again”.
There ARE problems with the class and it’s 3 specs, there are ALSO ways around them until the higher ups at Blizzard HQ decide to take a look at said problems, documented for half a decade if what I’ve read about pet AI is true, but the class is far from unplayable, it’s down to the player between chair and keyboard to change the perception of other players (not the whole community, being realistic) about him/her/it/themselves and build up his/her/its/their reputation outside of RIO score, numbers and statistics.
Those numbers and scores are meaningless most of the time, they don’t actually reprensent the knowledge and reflexes of the player, mostly because you can literally buy your way to high-end keystones and raids with allowed ingame Guild Services.
Hunters are a bad spot right now and have been for some time.
It is important that at least one person in the development team acknowledges this and start working on a complete rework of the class.
The new talent trees are terrible and the hunter gameplay feels super dated, don’t even get me started on the spaghetti code pet ai.
Or at least give us more attention than an arbitrary 5% buff once a month and then ignore us again lol (which is what has been happening so far in DF).
