Every depleted key is now practically worthless. The frustration is immense and every key which is a few seconds overtime sucks more than ever before.
People are even more mad now when something goes wrong and on really high keys you can just leave after a single mistake.
2 Likes
Frustration comes from the max vault reward change. In shadowlands you felt good when you filled your +15 vault up. It was the goal everyone looked out for and most of the casuals could do it. Now you will wipe in +19 and know that itâs harder to get the key back up to +20⌠Ofc itâs a frustrating situation but the elite players wanted this change soâŚ
8 Likes
Key depletion (i.e. automatic lowering of the key and offering no rewards) runs contrary to a core design principle of this game IMO, even if 20+. When they were developing WoW in the 2000s, they wanted to get away from systems common in other MMOs at the time where progression gets taken away for failure.
Completion should award some rating regardless of time over, and timing give even higher rating with more rewards. If you donât time a dungeon, a lower key should not be the result of it. Rather, the game should offer the player the agency to lower the key themselves.
22 Likes
I mean its not really the elite players, its just the players that can time a 20, average skilled players that can use an interupt and know how to do damage. You dont even have to time the key to get the reward. for context over 650000 20+ keys have been completed so far in the last 7 weeks so it doesnt look like its an elite passtime. People are doing them.
Elite players are timing 25-26 level keys and will be playing in the MDI.
And before you say it no i havent timed a 20, but im looking forward to the time when i play well enough to do it. I have depleted a couple though 
5 Likes
you can always admit that you lack skills for +20 rewards and be happy with +16 or +18.
its just +3 or +6 itlv - mostly negligible for 99 % of players.
3 Likes
No will just stop playing. If I canât progress any further there is nothing to do. I run less keys then in shadowlands tbh. Dragonflight m+ is feeling just awkward.
No loot.
No max reward
And you canât run keys with friends because they are too bad for+20. Got it done in pugs and felt super stressful
Hard to say but SL was better
4 Likes
Each to their own then, you found a solution that fits you. You CBA to do it so you are not gonna which is great. Why does it need to be dumbed down for people?
1 Like
More keys are being done now than in Shadowlands season 1, despite Shadowlands having been far more popular on release. You can complain about many things regarding M+ in DF but the reward structure is not one of them. If +20s are too much for you then you really donât need 421 ilvl, you wouldnât know what to do with it anyway.
Now whether or not itâs a bad change to have failed keys above 20 no longer give more score is a different story entirely. Personally I find that the dungeons are challenging enough that if you manage to clear it within 140% of the timer, you should still be given more score. The 40% barrier was enough.
If they really wanted to change something, they couldâve increased the decay; doing a +25 and going 5 seconds over time shouldnât give less score than a +20 that was timed with 5 seconds remaining.
Was the same thing in +15s back in SL.
If ur key fell beneath 15 all of a sudden barely anyoke applied and those that did sucked lol. You love to protray the narrative of âomg +20 made everything worseâ. No it did not lol.
This has been every season since m+ launched after the season settled low keys were notorioisly horrific
People have been raging over leavers since its very implementation and people bailed after a single wipe many many times. The demand for leaver punishment has been a srgument for 8 years.
Quite litterally nothing in regards to pug mentality has changed.
And to beleive elite players want to work harder for gear, which is needed for the content they do is ludicrious.
The change happened to equalise the difficulty in getting mythic raid level loot to make the competition hetween the 3 modes fairer. Thats the line realistically.
What has happened is:
Players that xomplained about leavers have left the pug enviroment reliesing nothings going to change leaving the ragers and quitters in its cesspool.
So its simply more frequent as they are now the majority most of us left to do this content in premades among friends and guildies and refuse to do Pugs.
1 Like
Heroic dungeon can give more rewards! Why we will want to do this when the silly world quest gives the higher item level? This is bad.
Just removing the timer all together would be better. Itâs a challenge in itself completing the key. Why it needs to be on a timer is beyond me. They are just trying to create an esport out of a game that doesnât need an esport.
Just remove The timer and for the MDI just have them race against a stop watch. It would be way better for everyone playing and more people would do m+
1 Like
Removing the timer woudl change nothing as people will still leave as soon as they realise they are boosting baddies for Free .
Want a carry ? Buy a boost instead hoping strangers will do IT for free
3 Likes
Did you not read why Blizz made the change? Has nothing to do with rewards, itâs to do with people pimping rio scores by running a +20 key to the end, knowing they wonât time it. They do it with key runs 20+ and above. So, Blizz set the level where depleting if you donât time at 20⌠Anything 20+ is about rio and the end of season âlook at me flex titleâ. So now, they do have to earn it properly.
As for average Joe⌠lol, average player does not even complete an M+10, let alone 15+.
650000 20+ keys done⌠Where did you drag that number from? Did you subtract the try hards that do non stop Mythics, including on their alts? Mr average barely does enough to get a slot for the vault, let alone more.
I just think no timer would be better. You get to choose your group when you go into the dungeon. If you choose someone who has low rating and ilvl thatâs on you
Iâm healing 18-20 keys atm so no one is carrying me. I just think it would be better experience.
1 Like
Actually, the people who wanted this change were the people whining that there was no âincentiveâ to push keys past +15. The elite players were already pushing keys far past +15 just for the challenge, and werenât bothered by the lack of loot. I suspect youâd call me an elite player - I timed keys around +22/23 in SL - and I specifically told the people asking for loot from higher keys to âbe careful what you wish forâ. The result of them getting what they wanted is that itâs now near impossible to find people for a +19 unless you have a group of friends/guildies to run it.
I donât mind getting better loot from keys I would have run anyway, but the bottleneck at +20 (which used to be split between +15 and +20) is horrible.
Well, thatâs how it used to be, no timer. Thing was, it was called a heroic dungeon back then⌠Once youâd run them a few times to get yur drops to fill out your slots, that was it. If you wanted loot that was better, you joined a guild and raided/PvPâŚ
M+, is only toxic/hard due to players at the wrong skill level for what they are doing. So casual Joe, trying to get into and doing a +10 or above gets stressed, as it is beyond their ability. Yet feels they should be able as they see all the 2k rios walking through them with no effort.
2k+ rios running sub 15 M+ to boost their 250 geared mate, or easy val farm and they put pressure on the people not at their level. QQ, boast or non stop insulting lack of dps/heals, tank too slow etc. That isnât Blizz, thatâs just human interaction when safe behind a screen.
M+ being a timed thing, I feel isnât an issue. People in game make it an issue. There are people who run marathons and do them in around 2hrs, while others can take actual days to complete them. Everyone gets a medal, the top tiers get financial rewards and fame. Next time, they try to get a better time.
Iâm happy messing around this season, no incentive to stress out pushing high keys or raid beyond normal. last season I pushed, it felt like work but I did it.
This season, Iâm happy just getting a token medal and some better than blues gear. I still like the timer, I hate the affix combos more.
1 Like
Youâre still getting some bonus score for completing a depleted key, up to the 40% over timer mark. Also, this applies to high keys only, which is fine, because the meta to get the m+ title was to pray for keys like SBG or CoS and time those at a high key, then take whatever you get out of it and deplete it (not even try to time it) to get the score that way, and then rinse and repeat. It was not a fun playstyle and Blizzard doesnât want to encourage people to actively try to deplete 6/8 dungeons while timing the other 2, they want to encourage people to play to time keys.
Should probably work on getting all dungeons to be relatively difficult to one another in that case.
1 Like
The bottleneck, as you called it was +15 in SL, end of. Same as 20 is now the so called bottleneck.
Nope, would not say SL 20-25 timers were elite. They were good, in the upper 75% but not elite. Just look at the figures sites put out after Sl came to an end. Or even Blizz when they handed out the âyou are specialâ titles for being in the top 1%.
They also broke down the numbers and levels people hit, for 75% and up etc. Seems the majority of actual players, never timed above a +10. Same vast majority who never come to forums, or probably donât know or care there are forums.
Not sure what server group you have but iâm on a near empty one and all I see is pugs looking for others, in the 18-21+ range. The hard pugs to find are lower keys it seems. Every so often you see them, flash by almost instant fill. The +10 to 15 keys in DF are just as volatile in experience as they were in SL. Past that, you find are more tank/heal premades, players with the gear and experience/skill.
There will always be a dungeon which is the easiest, thereâs no way around it. Itâs literally impossible to tune 8 dungeons to all be the exact same difficulty. So this problem would always have existed, no matter what, unless they implemented this change. Also, this change will affect roughly 1-2% of the player base. Itâs a non-issue and shouldnât even be discussed by anyone other than people pushing for the title.
1 Like