M+ season need urgent reform. NOW

Community General Discussion
1

Hello guys ! I usually dont do ranting posts, but I have to admit that this season is pure garbage. Worse than any other season I have ever played in. Its not fun to play. Its not fun to heal. It has ZERO sense of progression.

I seriously dont understand what Blizzard is doing and why hotfix after hotfix we are still in this situation. I really cant.

I am tired of ping/ponging 11/12s. Its absurd that an 11 is a total meme of a dungeon I can heal with my eyes closed. But a 12 its 1 mistake from anyone and the key is bricked. It is so frustrating…

You cant expect people to do an 11 and have a ton of leeway, but 1 key level after that you have to play like a Method Pro to gain some rio. Makes… no… sense…

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So TLDR what I want is to nerf the difficulty of the dungeons. Because it dosent matter at what level of M+ you play in. You need PEOPLE to play! So even “key pushers” benefit from a large comunity at the other end of the difficulty spectrum. We feed on eachother, and we need eachother. Its not 2 seperate communities like Blizzard thinks.

In addition, I want a linear progression in difficulty. Its not fun to have to claw a brick wall for each key level. So I want the affixes that feed this progression “staircase” gone, and the kiss/curse affixes to apply to every key level across the board. I am willing to sacrifice not having “push weeks” to get that.

And I have a suspicion that all this dumpster fire of M+ season has something to do with this :

https://news.blizzard.com/en-us/world-of-warcraft/24135749/awc-and-mdi-plans-revealed-for-the-war-within

They dont want to change anything untill their e-sport event is finished.

----------- FIRST: -----------

Blizzard stated that they want to end the 1-shot mechanics in DF. They said they wanted to make healing less stressfull. What do they do ? Give us more HP. Great !

But they also changed the spell quews of mobs, AND put 5 casters per pack “machine-gunning” bolts that overlap with nasty unavoidable AoE. Seriously ? Nothing hits that hard. But if you throw all that at the same time with ZERO way of stoping it, then its as if it was a 1-shot.

SOLUTION : Revert back to the CC situation we had in DF. I cant expect them to re-design all the dungeons from scratch and remove all the casters and AoE monsters. So change the spell quew NOW.

I also want kicks to get the “dispel” treatment. If you dont kick anything, you dont incur a CD on your kick. This also needs to happen NOW.

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Enough with the dispels. Organize this. There are some dungeons with unavoidable DoTs that truck like crazy (DB) and others that also truck, except for those that can dispel it (Arakara, GB). I have been sick of this situation since Vanilla.

SOLUTION: When it comes to healers, either we can ALL dispel something. Or none of us can. In arakara, for the poisons at the beginning of the dungeon and the last boss. Choose to either classify it as “magic” or “venom” (which nobody an dispell). And do that for ALL dots, in ALL dungeons.

And there needs to be something for DDs to dispel (to add flavour) then whatever that is, it CANT be a boss mechanic. And 2nd, nerf the damage a LOT so that it dosent truck that much. You have to make it a “nice to have” and not a “need to have” mechanic. And that includes Affixes.

And revert the changes to Poison Clensing Totem and MD please.

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Affixes. Get rid of the Gile at +12. PERIOD. Get rid of the 15s death penalty. PERIOD. And I expect this to happen like… 3 weeks ago !!!

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Get rid of the key level squish. Nerf ALL dungeon base damage by 50% effectively removing the squish. And to prevent big changes in difficulty, nerf the buff the affixes give you by 50%. Having BL for 50% of the duration of the dungeon is too much of a Buff.

Blizzard already tried to “nerf” the dungeons by increasing the duration of the kiss buff by 30%. But that is a bad solution. They to nerf the base damage of mobs, AND nerf the kiss part of the affix.

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Return to the itemization we had in DF S3. Myth track gear on a +16 (+6 today) and DONE.

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I am tired of reading “raid this” and “raid that” every single patch… The amount of people doing M+ vs. those doing Mythic Raiding are orders of magnitude larger. I dont understand why M+ is at the mercy of Raiders all the time. It makes no sense.

So basically Blizzard trashed M+ gearing because they dont want Raiders to get gear so easely. Well… Im tired. NOT MY PROBLEM. Reform the Raiding scene to fix Raiding issues (which by the way hasent changed since 2004. Its long overdue). But its ridiculous to reform the M+ scene to fix Raiding issues. Its moronic.

SOLUTION: If blizzard insists on giving Mythic Raiders “special” treatment, I want it too. I want OP trinkets like the Spymasters Web in M+. And I want deterministic Myth Track drops. Either from the vault or drops from dungeons. I refuse to be treated like 2nd class citicen because of Raiders.

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Give ALL dungeons an extra 3 minute timer. Across the board.

---------Conclusion : -----------

Thanks for reading this rant. And I hope we see the necessary changes soon. Because I give this season 1 more week before I hang the coat and go play something else untill season 2.

And to be honest, it takes a lot of frustration to get me to stop doing M+. I continued to play even in S2 with Exodia in full force. Or S1 of DF which was also really difficult. I even continued to play in SL when people were quitting in droves.

But this season… its too much…

We had a great thing going on in S3 of DF. HUGE participation numbers. Everyone was happy and we had a healthy community.

ALL blizzard had to do is remove affixes and put kiss/curse ones. For EVERYONE (including high keys). That’s IT. But no. They over-engeneered the M+ dungeons and came up with this BS of season.

So basically what I want is for them to go back to what used to be in S3 DF. With kiss/curse affixes (even for high keys). DONE.

38 Likes
2

Keys were always exponential. Modifier is applied to previous level and not to base level. What you experienced at 11-12 is same as 21-22 before squish. (not counting s4’s which were always free loot seasons)

2 Likes
3

That is not true. Key modifiers are linear and apply to the base damage.

https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/112t3p0/dragonflight_m_scaling_chart/
https://www.wowhead.com/news/impact-of-new-mythic-scaling-in-dragonflight-10-scaling-starting-at-keystone-11-329269

If you notice on the graphs I posted (which are of DF but are identical concept in WW) when you see this:

|+21|428%|
|+22|481%|

It means a +21 has 428% more from BASE DAMAGE. And a +22 has a 481% from BASE DAMAGE. Not from the calculated damage of a +21.

So key levels have always been LINEAR. NOT exponential.

What you are confusing is the the delta % increments of each key level. Which do follow an exponential increment. But the effects from one key to the other are linear.

False.

You forget that they added an extra +10% modifier just because. PLUS the Gile (+10% BASE damage. KEY WORD HERE). PLUS loosing the OP kiss affixes (practically, BL for 50% of the dungeon). PLUS fortified and tyrannical.

So practically speaking, an +11 is not a +21. Its more in line with a +15 given the fact we got permanent BL because of affixes. And a +22 is more in line with a +26/+27 given the fact that you add +10% base damage, base HP, fortified AND tyrannical (on top of the modifiers), AND you loose permanent BL because of affixes.

Not to mention 1-shot mechanics + 15s deaths. Which add to a super tight timer, much tighter than what it used to be.

That is the reality. There is no linear increment in difficulty between an 11 and a 12. And that did not exist in the past.

2 Likes
4

Modifier is not liner nor exponential. Modifier is just that… a modifier. Modifier is applied to the previous key numbers which lead to exponential difficulty curve.
Difference in the numbers and not percents are smaller at lower keys and greater at higher keys with exactly the same modifier.

1000+10% = 1100 (+100 on previous)
1100+10% = 1210 (+110 on previous)
1210+10% = 1331 (+121 on previous)
etc

Percentages are the same, but numbers of HP, DPS whatever are very exponential i am afraid.

It seems that you have very specific season in mind, while i was speaking ‘rounded’. There have never been two exactly the same seasons.
M20 during SL S1 were hard, M20 during SL S4 were facerollable.

My point is that no matter if the curve is slightly curvy or more curved you will reach that point of ‘big jump’.

1 Like
5

From season to season what you see are changes to base difficulty. Not the modifiers.

And you keep ignoring the gale in your assessment. It dosent matter how low or high the base value of damage and HP are. If that # is low, you get your “facerol” seasons. If that # is high you get your “hard seasons”.

What matters is that the difference between a 20+ and +21 wasent crazy. And it is still the case in WW for key levels 2 to 9. At key level 10 you have tyrannical + fortified, so you get a +30% modifier in 1 key level (PLUS the existing modifier). And at 12 keylevel you loose the Gile, PLUS 10% modifier to BASE values (PLUS the existing modifiers).

That is not “smooth” like in other seasons. Because in other seasons you did not have the scaling PLUS some extra modifiers at some specific key levels. Keyword here: plus extra stuff ON TOP of the existing modifiers.

That is a clear difficulty spike that did not exist in previous seasons. Especially the Gile affix.

I don’t know what point you want to get to. I literally wrote exactly that with charts.

And you are over-complicating your assesment. Getting a % modifier on a base value, and long chart of those is as complicated as it gets.

1000 base damage + [insert some %]
1000 base damage + [insert some %]
1000 base damage + [insert some %]
…

Its as difficult of a calculation as it gets.

Maybe to avoid confusions, “linear” might not be the right word. How about “smooth”. Sound better ?

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Im not at the 11-12 level of keys, but there’s a big jump just going from 9 to 10 with the added tyra/fort (depending on week). Im not a fan of what they did to this season at all.

7 Likes
7

Affixes are different story which i didn’t address. And i agree with you about affixes just to be clear.

Maybe, but the difference between 25 and 26 was.
It doesn’t matter how many keys are distributed on the curve and how are they labeled. Keys are not actual constant thing. “big jump point” always existed. In some season it was 17, in some 21, in some 27, whatever, but it always existed.

8

I think the point is that those walls now are massive and comes into play quite early. From my experience its not fun timing a 9 and then get slapped into oblivion in a 10. Before if we got to a keylevel we werent quite ready for it would mean missing the timer with maybe 5-10 mins. Not being stuck in that key for 1,5 hrs with 85 deaths.

I do realise this is also a skill issue for me, we went into that key knowing we would have no chance of timing it, but dont think any of us were prepared for the massive stepup it would be from a 9 to a 10.

3 Likes
9

The difference between every next keylevel was always just 10%. So when you were blasting keylevel X, the next keylevel X+1 wasn’t annihaling you. That part was lineair. You maybe did not time the next key, but it wasn’t out of nothing a 2 hour wipefest unfinishable dungeon.

This was also just 10%.
What you have to look at is where in the dungeon are you on 10% health, and consider yourself dead in the next. So you have to learn how to survive 1 shots. When you get in the current season from 11 to 12 you better look at something like 35-40%.

4 Likes
10

Healing is so fun in TWW what you on about

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Well, what would be early? Too close to the key which is yielding top rewards? OK, sure, i guess if they are to loosen a bit it would do no harm.

But my question is: what will fundamentally change?

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Indeed it was. An those 10% stacking is what makes difficulty to be exponential.

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Well we never had big jumps like this.

1 Like
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Trust you to come in the with the first reply that is technically correct in one aspect but as usual utterly misses the point. It’s not just the scaling, its the fact that the beneficial affix is removed too that makes the jump so big.

So yes, the curve is lumpy as hell, its not close to smooth.

1 Like
15

Should have scrolled down :stuck_out_tongue:

16

I have done 1 m+ the whole season with all my alts and is enough :D.

Is not about gear~ difficulty or anything else . Is just not fun .

When a game stop being fun it stops being a game .

5 Likes
18

You must be Daestra. BTW, i don’t mind that comment.

19

Yes it does im with you 100 % on this
game is in terrible state when it comes to M+

2 Likes
20

The name for what you explained is “Exponential”.

What you said can be summarized in the formula:
Base * 1.1 ^ (N - 1)

Where Base is the M0 value and N is the M+ key level. N as you see is the “exponent” in the formula, hence the name “Exponential”.

1 Like
21

Needs to increase gold gains from m+. Consumes are too expensive so are repairs.

6 Likes