That doesn’t really mean anything in this context, as the new system has a way steeper curve of difficulty increase than before per key-level
You said:
I pointed out I’ve done content that’s harder in m+ than raiding the early mythic bosses, through pugging.
It’s easier to get 5 people together that knows what to do, at all levels, than it is to get 20 people.
- You cannot pug Ovinax mythic from LFG
- If M+ was as hard relatively as an average mythic raid boss at +10, which it should be, then you’d need to play on a schedule most likely, or wait very long in LFG
- It’s not only about getting people together, it’s a coordination question, which is tied to the raid design.
Also, again, you still haven’t said why M+ is intrinsically better. You’ve only said that you don’t wanna play on a schedule, so you play M+. That is not an argument for M+, that’s an argument against current mythic raids.
I’m just gonna put you on ignore because you’re not actually understanding what I’m saying. Either because you can’t or because you choose not to.
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Early mythic raid bosses arent usually very hard. Im not a very high skilled player but when i raided mythic we usually killed around 5 bosses before we called it quits for the season. And most of the time a few ppl dying didnt mean a wipe while in m+ it could easily mean your key is bricked.
End of the day its just silly to compare the 2 modes as they are very different.
The timer issue was created by blizzard in tww. There already were way better iterations of m+, where the timers were much less important than now and instead the focus was on the actual content of the dungeon.
It is caused mostly by the +7 affix, but the base timers are also too tight in many dungeons.
Removing keys is a bad idea imo, but how about making a m+ key always point to two dungeons?
So a sample key would be: m10 The Necrotic Wake OR City of Threads; usable in either of those two and the next key would similarly point to two different dungeons.
Ignore them, every single m+ thread they come in and go “hurr durr m+ been dead for years” while having nothing to back that up.
Well, I’d ask myself firstly, at which M+ key level coordination is required to succeed, and secondly at which level the same % of M+ players correspond relatively to Mythic Raiders. This means that if 0.1% of Mythic Raiders get CE, then 0.1% of M+ players should get 2500. It doesn’t need to perfectly align, but that should be a very rough estimate. Yet, we are Latitudes away from that ratio. Same with AoTC and 2000 M+ rating. The same goes for ilvl rewards too. Because that’s not the case, M+ is way too rewarding compared to raiding.
I know it’s very theoretical right now, but the current way the game works is very illogical and it pushes people into content rather than offering alternatives.
They could fix that with separating the gear. Make m+ gear better for m+ and raidgear better for raid. Then ppl wont feel «forced» to do content they dont like. And raiders wont feel m+ plebs gets gear too easily if that gear is useless outside m+.
Look, i agree with most of it, but not with the revert of nerfs to poison cleanse totem and mass dispel. They are necessary. The spells are too OP on short CD’s and trivialise affixes and mechanics, which is odd after you just made the point that it’s unbalanced for healers to have different dispels.
What a horrible argument, Ovinax is the 5th or 6th boss. Thats not an early boss, are you Daft?
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2 Items per completed Run or 56 Gold, what a crazy reward.
Meanwhile i can farm 3/6 Myth Track BoE’s in Raid by joining some 4/8 ID. 
Or… They could firstly adjust the Mythic Raiding difficulty, so the CE Raiders out of the Raiding population are closer to the Ratio of Keystone Heroes out of the Dungeon population. Then they can look at player behaviour long term and draw conclusions, because that would ensure that both types of content are similarly rewarding.
Or, we just keep them separate like pvp is separate. You can keep your raiding and we can keep m+. Done deal.
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If you wanna make mythic raiding easier then you can make your own topic about that. Not gonna say anything abt that since i havent done mythic raiding since SL.
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Issue is that many people are playing M+ with reasons that have more to do with the Reward structure of PvE, and that’s directly related to OPs post.
OP is basically asking to lower the Bar for M+ rewards even more compared to raiding.
Thats not an issue at all. All you need to do is stop stubbornly bringing raiding into every single darn m+ thread and we are good.
We get it already, you want raiding to be easier. Go make your own threads about it then.
And that could be fixed with separating the gear, not nerfing mythic raids. People that wanna invest in the time to raid mythic will invest in the time. Ppl that wanna invest the time to push high keys will invest the time.
Well, no, I can definitely bring raiding up, as raiding and M+ are part of the same pve progression and many players do both or feel compelled to do both, as M+ is OP for gearing already. Now there is a thread to make M+ even more OP and even easier. That will make the problem worse.
Cant wait to see the RWF completely fold over because Broduin got what he wanted and mythic opraid is now basically heroic raid and the challenge is gone, which means the race and any prestige to it is gone.
Meanwhile people will still mythic boe farm and steamroll the first three bosses.