No no no it doesnt work like that my man.
You said ‘Doesnt change factr that audience what runs mythic+ casualy is much larger than adueicen what runs Mythic+ compettively above 15.’
The burden is on you to prove it. Dont be lazy now and expect others to do the work for you. Prove it. With cited facts from these sites.
I love M+… yet with these changes i wont be doing it. not to Any extent like now.
I aint got time to comitt to HC Raiding And M+… and HC Raiding provides the larger Gains realistically
I don’t need BiS stats to run the content I care about. Unless you’re high-end raider or M+ pusher, you don’t, either.
Also, again, consider the vault: 2-3 items to choose from every week, compared to a random item currently in BfA. No corruptions, no azerite traits, DRs on secondaries. Higher ilevel will almost always make an item better. It won’t take 6-8 months, more like 2-4 to deck out a char in very decent M+ gear.
That is assuming tier sets will be limited to raids, which they may or may not be, and there’s a fair chance they will not be.
Because lots of people are bad at maths. 
…assuming tier sets will be raid bound. And that they even come back. Blizzard only said they’re considering, they never said they’ll come back, nor that they’ll be raid-bound.
By the second half of the season, where most people will get their +15 achis, covenant choice really won’t matter.
I do know player mentality, I pugged most of my M+ runs in BfA. I got invited to keys on a non-meta spec in S3, and were able to time what I wanted to time. Same in S4 (but it was easier there, because the S4 affix didn’t favour resto druids that much).
I’m also happy to run my own keys, or, dunno, make friends, and run with them.
None of the changes so far made me want to raid. Quite the contrary: M+ seems much more useful to me in SL than it was in BfA. I’m not a high-key pusher, I do not need BiS gear. All I need is good enough gear to do the content I care about, and SL makes that considerably easier for me, without having to step into any raid, at any difficulty.
At the same time, the changes make M+ spamming and heroic split raids for the hardcore 1% much less lucrative, and that’s also a good change. For the average person, these changes don’t really matter, and with the vault, and DR on secondaries, they’re even a net positive.
I played a Warlock and a Shadow priest in M+ and my only option was my Own groups lol.
Yeah. i’ve yet to meet a Significant amount of people in M+ that i’d actually talk to again.
PuGs are hardly friendly.
Thats a fair point. I mean to be honest, whats wrong with been decked out within 4 months if i both m+ above 15 AND raid heroic? I dont see why they feel the need to hamstring everyone for the sake of extending ‘easy’ content for longer. Isnt time gated bs what we’ve been wanting to get rid of?
Instead of ‘do this for 20 weeks in a row to get something’ its now ‘half the amount of drops, less ilvl drops’. Its the same thing. Its blizzard being idiots and trying to drag out content for as long as possible.
Lowering ilvl gains from content X aint gonna make me wanna do content Y more. It’ll just make me quit as i cant progress doing solely content X i.e. the content i enjoy more
I compared timed runs on Rio +15 and above +15 there is about 80% drop in participation. Since i cna tpost links you have to look at yourself. Its on Rio site.
Well, i am considering myself a keypusher 
We need to fill ~15 pieces. 2 months is 9 weeks. 4 months is 18, so we are getting closer to the number. But i am sure half of the weeks we are getting useless stuff anyway. Looking at the current situation. 3 weeks in bfa is also just 3 weeks scrapping.
It simply comes down to … which ones gonna make you more powerful
HC Raiding Or M+.
the answer is HC Raiding. So if u can only do 1 or invest in only 1. Why Would u invest in M+…
Just like in legion… i prioritized HC Raiding before i touched M+… simple as. Tier sets > M+ lol
There were some pretty good drops in m+ in legion. TF Drape of Shame for instance.
That’s not the reason for the ilevel nerf anyway. The reason they nerfed the ilevel of the end of dungeon loot was to discourage heroic split raids. That’s it. Nothing to do with anything else. It wasn’t made so you’d do more heroic or mythic raids. It was made so the hardcore WF pushers wouldn’t spam M+ and then do heroic splits. Simple as that.
For everyone else, the ilevel nerf is a non-issue, and easily offset by the weekly vault.
there was. but the DPS Gains from things like tier bonuses were pretty vital… so i’d also do HC Til i had obtained those rewards and then do some M+ Later into the patch cycle.
then return to HC Raiding upon the next tier.
ofcourse with RIOs Huuuge impact in the community these days. Playing M+ Late every patch with its existance… will become ALOT harder… which may or may not demotivate me doing M+ ENtirely.
as i will likely invest in HC PuG raiding.
They why not disable trading of m+ loot until mythic raid is released? Would stop this for the WF race and wouldnt screw over m+ runners in the long run? Weekly vault is a non issue as it’ll take months to get anywhere near BIS from it.
Like legit this seems to be a ‘we dont know how to stop wf raiders from gearing first’. NEWS FLASH WF raiders WILL find a way round this WITH EASE. They are punishing everyone who runs m+ because of a few thousand players who rush for WF.
they could Just lower M+ Ilevel for the first Part of Every patch, then increase it up afterwards… this would Remove the problem also.
I would not screw over thousands of players for that 1 week of world first race. Talking about 1 game mode destroying game experiences, ouch 
This is what i am really debating.
i am not going to spend my time in a game mode i just do not like.
If tier set do return.
ur gonna take uptoo a 30% + DPS loss for that.
think people have forgotten how HUGE tier sets were. It single handly made Monks one of the strongest PvE Class in the game during Antorus
Raid or Die, right… 
It’s a wild guess, but I think this is the same as introducing a new loot mode, so it’s a lot more work than slightly lowering the ilvl and use the existing system.
yup.
Remember Monk in Antorus… .remmeber how bad they were til that tier set, your either going to reroll to try Reduce the impact of Not having it which will still have its impacts
Or ur gonna HC Raid til u get these items… or Buy boosts to get ahold of these items.
or sit on LFR ilevel rewards xD Which is a Possibility also.
If it will be like that, it can end up me searching for a different game. I mean, i play this game for fun…
Honestly, if this was the reasoning then ok. I get that its datamained, nothing is set in stone. But for a change like this id have thought they’d have the brains to communicate with us about it.
I dont think anyone would have an issue with them saying ‘until the WF race starts we are lowering end of run m+ rewards so as to avoid gearing up in m+ rather than the heroic raid as we dont believe, for the initial clear of mythic difficulty, m+ shouldn’t be the way to gear’.
Let the WF raiders deal with this ‘top end bureaucracy’ and let the vast majority gear to a reasonable level (heroic ilvl) via any way they choose.