I guess I’m looking for a little advice from any M1 Mac Mini users out there. My iMac died a few months back (after years of happy WoW playing) and I think it’s time to bite the bullet and purchase a new one. I’m not interested in the new iMac, but, am VERY curious about the current M1 Mac Mini (this way I can hook my Playstation up to the monitor, too). Plus, I will likely only ever play WoW Classic now. I’ve played retail WoW for years but nowadays, I’m happy pottering around worlds already explored.
So, my question:
Are there any M1 Mac Mini users out there? And if so, how does this machine cope with Classic (plus maybe BC when it starts up)?
*Any suggestions for a great compatible monitor would be appreciated, too.
If you will be getting one - you should aim for 16GB model. Classic uses less RAM than Retail, but Retail already has problem at 8GB plus integrated graphics also use some of the system RAM (and 8GB M1 devices are know to swap out to the SSD much more often limiting it lifespan).
Or if you can manage Windows there are mini PC options there too
Thanks, Bigkeg. I’ve always used Macs but now I’m reluctant to payout big cash for another Apple product. Or maybe I’m just getting older and wiser. Either way, I’m set in my ways, and only potter about in Classic nowadays, so looks a good option for me. I do keep reading about the memory swapping, which has been a concern for me. But if the RAM is increased as much as possible (16gb) and you go for the biggest SSD storage possible, it is supposed to greatly increase the lifespan. Fingers crossed.
I’m getting my M1 Mac tomorrow. Currently running on an Intel mini with EGPU. The 8GB M1 is more than enough for WOW. It can’t be compared to the ram on intel systems as it’s a system on a chip. The 8GB of ram on the M1 chip is equivalent, if not more than 16GB on an Intel based system. The 16GB at this point is only worth it if you are running very intense workloads, like graphic design rendering, etc. People are reporting that the M1 Macs, while running WoW and having browser windows, etc. open at the same time are sitting at around 4 - 5 GB of ram usage, so even with the 8GB, there is still plenty of overhead remaining.
As for the performance, I’ll tell you tomorrow, but from my research, with a bit of tweaking, WOW should run smoothly on a 3440 -1440 screen, with people saying they have it running stable on this resolution on an M1 at 60Hz, also in raids, with a bit of settings tweaking (main thing being turning down shadows and water detail, seem to make a huge difference while leaving the other settings maxed out). Running it on lower resolutions should be smooth as butter. Do remember, in the end, it’s still integrated graphics, so don’t expect miracles, but as far as integrated graphics go, it is far superior than anything Intel or AMD currently have on the market.
If you want better performance, you could also wait for the M1X Macs to release. There’s a chance this will happen as soon as June, but more likely October. The leaked benchmarks of these have them at twice the performance of the M1 chip and there might even be versions coming out with dedicated graphic cards. The next version of MacOS is also getting support for the latest Radeon cards, which raises questions if Apple is possibly going to use them… or make the use of EGPU’s possible again with the M1X chips.
The memory swapping issue is also extremely exaggerated. Reports of it happening have gone down and even then, in the worst cases where it was reported, it was calculated the lifespan of the SSD would be reduced to… 5 years. I don’t know about you, but in my case if I keep a computer longer than 2 years, I consider it long.
Now that’s just wrong/fanboying. The only difference is OS and it memory management. Aside of that you can’t replace the storage nor RAM so if you run out of one - it’s very quick obsolescence so OP should think twice before buying.
That is questionable when 8GB M1 issues are being reported, related to the excess SSD swapping.
M1 iGPU behave like other modern iGPUs - it will give good framerate but drop it on mass paricle effects - thus it requires then mode 3/4 or custom setting limiting the density of such effects.
You can find an example on this Wrathion fight where FPS drops to ~30 when the whole floor is in fire:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRmiHlk8sxM
So you dump $1000-$2000 on a no-repair no-upgrade nettop or a iGPU laptop every 2 years? No wonder you like Apple so much…
16GB equivalent, that is what the users themselves are reporting in everyday use. As you say yourself, it’s a different OS. Different memory, shorter lines between memory/CPU/GPU, etc. People using these M1 Macs for heavy video editing, etc. are reporting it is very rare for them to need more than 8GB, so I would really only spend the extra money for 16GB at this point if that is the kind of workload you plan on putting on the system or if you plan on keeping it really long term. Personally, as good as the M1 is for what it is right now, I don’t think it will age very well. Must not forget this is in essence the ‘early adopter’ product of a completely new line.
Still reported, yes, but less frequently than first, suggesting something may have been done behind the scenes to partially address issues, who knows.
I’ve seen several YouTube vids of people playing Classic on settings 8+ with steady 60 FPS frame rates, one of which was using an ultra wide monitor, the key does seem to be the shadow and water effects, they cause a heavy toll on the graphics. Yes, indeed, the M1 will not get you that frame rate out of the box, you will have to play with the settings, but you can get there without significantly turning all settings down. I’ll draw my own conclusions once I get my M1 tomorrow.
I don’t exclusively use Apple, thank you very much. Tech is a hobby for me and I’m in a fortunate position to have the money for it. 5 years however, in my eyes, is fine, especially if you’re talking about gaming on a Mac. This calculation was also based on constant use 8 hours a day in the worst case scenarios of the reports. With most of the GPU’s Apple has integrated into it’s systems over the years, you’d be lucky to get a practical lifespan of 3-4 years out of them playing games. The best GPU they put in an iMac, for example, is the 5700XT, with this model still being sold today. This was already a midrange card from the previous GPU gen that is now getting thrashed by, at least on paper, cheaper lower end cards from the current GPU generation.
OP wants a cheap Mac that will run Classic/TBC and that’s exactly what he’d be getting with the 8GB version M1. Classic runs fine on 8GB now, same will be true for TBC and the system requirements for those games aren’t going to change over their lifespan. 16GB will add an extra £200 to the price tag. And as a tip, Apple has a batch of M1 mini’s on Apple refurbished, for all intent and purposes new units with full warranty with an extra £140 off. They had some 256GB versions on there for just over £500 the other day, but they seem sold out.
Also, one thing Apple does do quite well is customer service (as long as you’re inside your warranty or Apple Care period). OP would be free to purchase an 8GB unit to test and see if it does what he wants, if not, he has 2 weeks to pack it up again, send it back to Apple and get a full refund.
Which is highly subjective. Memory coherency or different OS can give you some savings but at some point you will be hit by game assets or a dumb addon reading a big file into memory. For Classic it won’t be a problem but for retail in Oribos 8GB systems on 1080p medium can already stutter (while on 16GB config the game can use 8-10GB of RAM in total including Vega 7 iGPU/Windows).
For Classic I could see 8GB would not be a problem unless some addon or Discord/whatever makes a flop and eats excess memory. For Retail I would not trust in the client + addons/whatever to fit in 8GB. And 9.0.5 did cause a lot of problems including M1.
It may happen, especially if M2 will have subsequent arch/design changes. In such context does M1 device is the optimal value for just playing Classic? Like we don’t even know if they will offer native Classic client.
Which is most of WoW particle effects. You can create a retail test character, go to Karazan and pull big bunch of mobs and test it quite reliably:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ka4PngW93X0
This pull is heavily single core bottlenecked but for iGPU and weak dGPU the fire effect they channel chokes the GPU part and you can see drastic FPS difference between modes > 4, mode 4, mode 3 and mode 1 (on 4 you get less, on 3 much less and on mode 1 none). In retail this is an equivalent of a spell effect going on large area of the encounter (like fire on Wrathion or lots of swirls on Denathrius etc.)
You can also watch Hardware Numb3rs on YT which will be posting a play-through soon (he is one of WoW benchmarkers). But either way from the iGPU side of things it works really well for an iGPU.
Yes if OP will only use it for this purpose only. As you can’t change the specs after purchase it would be really good to re-think if there are any other usages OP may have for the device - like replacing some other PC, media player or what have you. Even installing retail is getting close to 100GB of storage O_o. If after that validation there are no edge-case use cases then “add to basked” and “checkout”.
So, in other words, you are validating all my points that for the use case OP has described, an 8GB M1 Mac will do just fine and save a nice slice of money for him. Thank you.
Again, I’m not claiming the M1 is the next coming of Jesus, but for this specific case, especially if money is important, it will do. My main reason for getting one (went for the air) was noise production as my Windows gaming laptop sounds like a helicopter taking off, while all I want to do with it is media consumption and the odd bit of Classic/TBC on an external 1080p monitor, so for me, it will also do just fine.
I’m far from a blind Apple fanboy. I fail to see the point of the new 24’ iMac, for instance. You have a, most likely, lovely 4.5k screen… bundled with a bog standard M1 chip, seems a completely waste for anything but the most basic of uses.
I was going to invest in a new Windows based machine, but I refuse to right now with all the stupid scalper prices, so I picked up a Mac mini cheap on Ebay and made it work for me. I do prefer MacOS over Windows though.
Many thanks for the time spent replying to my post. Your reply was extensive any VERY much appreciated. I think at this point I’ve near decided on the M1 Mac Mini, and will likely keep it until replaced by the next upgraded unit available at the time it’s needed, whether it be two, three years, whatever.
In all honestly, I think my biggest decision now will be which monitor to purchase which would also be suitable for attaching my PS4, and which speakers do I purchase do give adequate sound. I’ve been using iMacs for about 15+ years so I’m completely out of touch.
I’d be interested in your thoughts once you have your M1 Mac Mini but wouldn’t want to steal your time from your new gadget. I hope you’re happy with it. Enjoy my friend.
If he really wants a M1 mac mini then yes. But that’s just a small yes.
Locally I see 8/265 M1 for 811 EUR. Looking only through new if you can start with bigger form factors there are like HP Desktop M01 starting at 542 EUR - Ryzen 5 4600G, 8GB RAM (second slot free), 1TB NVMe SSD and it looks like it’s compatible with some dGPU (depending on size and power needs as it’s custom PSU/case size). There are nettops to but priced bit higher and without the option to convert it to full gaming PC in the future.
Ryzen 4600G is like 3600 + Vega 7 iGPU and it can run retail on mode 3/4 easily. It’s not the best like Tiger Lake + LPDDR4X or M1 but cheaper and way more flexible and still more than needed for Classic.
You are correct, in my case I will need to increase the RAM. I think Sneakylover’s reply addressed my post spot on. But, in my case I will be increasing my storage, plus increase the unified RAM to 16gb to future proof the system as much as I can.
If the money isn’t a concern, go for it, I did upgrade mine to 512GB storage, but couldn’t find a use case for the extra ram, also considering I’ll probably replace it or supplement it with an M1X based system later this year. This is a bit of a stopgap solution for me. Probably lose a couple 100 on it when selling, but probably no more than that, which is fine for me.
Like I said, have a look at Apple refurbished, they’ve started getting some batches in since last week, some at significant discounts, while the units you get via Apple refurbished may just as well be brand new, only difference being a less fancy outer box.
I think the same will be true for me to a degree. I will likely keep longer than a year, but, depends on comes along. Plus, if my first M1 Mac Mini is still doing OK I’ll wait a while longer. Spending a relatively small amount on a mac mini every couple or so years I think is starting to suit my needs. Assuming of course Apple continue to make them.
To come back on this. I have started testing WOW Classic a bit on my M1 MacBook Air today (8 GPU core version) and I’m pleasantly surprised. So far I haven’t done much, but I have it set to preset 8 with shadows set to good, liquid detail on fair and particle density on good and am getting a solid 60 FPS on the laptop display at it’s full resolution (2560 x 1600). Haven’t tested in raids or endgame dungeons, but did quickly run through SM:GY on it, where my 5700 XT has stuttered sometimes on frame rate and it didn’t budge a millimetre. Better than I was expecting is all I can say so far.
All looks good then for WoW Classic at least (which is all I’m concerned with). My only decision now if I opt for the Mac Mini is which monitor to purchase. I’ll have to get on the reviews. If the price for a Mac Mini, monitor, speakers, keyboard etc clocks up too much, I might just opt for the new iMac. But… will do some research first. Plus waiting times for the new iMac are now ramping up. Delivery originally was meant to be mid May, but now we’re looking at end of June, early July.
As impressive as the M1 is, I’d try to keep the pixels down for a good frame rate. If you’re OK with a 24 inch screen or lower, I’d probably even lean towards 1080p, though judging by the results on the air’s own screen, 2560x1440 should also get to 60 fps. An ultra wide will probably struggle. I’d certainly not invest extra into a high screen refresh rate, unless you intend to hook the screen up to something else in the future. That being said, a good 1080p screen should only cost around £100.
In the end, you do have to play with the settings. The auto detect settings gave me around 40 fps on setting 4 preset, but with shadows, etc. on a higher value. Just turning those down and upping the rest to 8 gave me 60 fps solid. Still hoping for an M1X Mac mini this year though, will hopefully mean the end of the EGPU era for me as in theory, that should give the same results as a semi-decent dedicated GPU.
I think 24" would be okay for me personally. I had a 27" once and it was way too big - but - I only sit a couple or so feet away. Yep, 24", 26" at most would be more than enough for me.
