Yep exactly. Now I don’t disagree that some people get way too hung up on the meta, but the choice is pretty simple really…
Unless the off meta player that signs up to my groups has exceptional gear or score, you bet I’m picking the meta class with exact same ilvl or better than him, as long as his score is reasonable ofc.
Well i take for granted we are talking about a player who are geared for it and knows what he is doing. If those two checks out it is np. Just take a look at wich keys the person have completed in that season.
Another thing is that alot of people playing meta-specs are people who reroll to fotm whenever the meta changes. Not saying all of these are bad, but some definetely are. Also alot of them dont know how to play the spec optimal vs someone who mains the same year after year through ups and downs.
Now and then i invite pug-players if my guildgroup is missing a player or two. If ilvl and rio is ok for the key i am doing, i dont look at the spec to much, exept if we for example want a caster.
I also talk with the person a couple of sentences to make sure he is a chill person who will not ragequit if there is to be a wipe.
My way of doing it, i believe in “bring the player not the spec” - But rio goes under the “player” category there.
But the higher you go, the more it will matter. We did for example have a sub rogue in bfa who did insane dps in some m+ keys in keys between 15 and 20. when sub was the opposite thing to meta.
If you have a +6 key in your bag you should open your own group for it. You will likely have to get carried (no offense) since you likely only have M0 experience, but thats a starting point.
other than that I advise you to sign up for +2 and +3 keys for all the dungeons first. Not only does that push your RaiderIO level, but it also makes you learn the dungeons more gradually.
Jumping into a +6 right away is rough. You likely will get oneshot alot.
Yeah and there’s nothing wrong with doing it your way either, I’m merely pointing out that you (not you specifically, you “the player”) don’t owe random players anything when it comes to LFG, and group leaders are allowed to be selfish, so naturally they only choose with their own best interest in mind.
I probably agree with your way when I’m doing very low keys that I don’t really think can realistically fail, but anything “relevant” to me I will absolutely go out of my way to decrease the chances of failing every way I can, and picking good classes goes a long way there.
I was able to join several M+ as a retri but I grouped with a healer before asking for an invite so that was the only reason I was accepted. They simply needed healer… but in the end my dps was really fine and mostly we finished the run in time. And in rare occassions we didn´t , my dps was not really the reason.
I think most people understand there is usually lack of healers and tanks in this game. And you can resolve that problem by turning into one. So by non-inviting you to group they want to tell you that you should roll tank or heal as that would make everyone´s life much easier. And truth to be told - they are right… So despite that is not my preference, I am running most of my runs as a holy paladin and I do not have problems to get invited. I know I would enjoy dps more, but I know I definitely enjoy playing holy more than being not playing at all…
So if you don´t want to wait hours in queues, I can only recommend one thing - become a tank or a healer… But if you insist on being dps. group up with a tank or healer… that´s your only chance…
Of course, if you own the key and run the group you can invite whoever you want. Im just thinking loud about the mechanism around the meta-slavery, and why it doesnt matter as much as some tend to think.
yeah i just try to make sure as much as possible that the person is fit for the level. I have seen most of it when it comes to surprises in m+ as im sure you have to.
like a guy in a +18 in 8.3, healer said “brb half minute” and the rogue ran into the awakaned orb affix thing, got oneshot, and raged at me (the tank) from here to the moon because he got aggroed.
that rogue had decent rio for the keylevel. at that point i taught “now i have seen and heard it all”
meta-spec players underperforming, overperforming.
non-meta spec players overperforming, and underperforming.
This thread and the answers were very useful to me! It’s the exact same thing with PvP by the way. If you must choose between a Boomie or Fire Mage against Elemental Shaman or Destro Lock, guess who’d win 10 out of 10 
Same thing goes for RBGs, same thing goes for Arenas. Nobody picks a Ret over WW and nobody picks an Enhancement over Arms 
Literally, even the “let’s do the weekly quest yolo” type of groups would give you the “Declined” without second thought.
In a data driven world (and world of warcraft), people have every right to judge you by your numbers and reject you, while preaching for equality of opportunity of course.
And no, it hasn’t been like that in the past 10 years … whoever wrote it above. Or in the first 10 years. In fact, the community and whole idea behind the first 10 years of WoW were around growing as one, learning from our mistakes, embracing multiple failures every week while pushing the next challenge… The only two things that made you “undesirable” for any group was the lack of gear, potions, flasks, etc., and not spending a minute into researching the tacticts, concept, etc.
And now it feels like a high school - rich kids only roll with rich kids, nerds only rolls with nerds and outcasts go pug or whatever. No wonder 6/10 groups in the LFR/LFD systems are “TROLOLOL SELLIN BOOST DISCOUT 20% ON OUR WEBSITE…”
Whatever, this is starting to turn into a whine post, which was not the idea. Let’s just hope we get introduced with some major Wowlywood mandatory rules soon, like getting quotas for having at least 1 black Human in your Mythic group, otherwise the system won’t allow you to plug your key and be nominated for an Wowscar. Running to the barber in Oirbos as we speak, brb!
why take melee that needs to constantly run away from mechanics when you have a ranged class that can stay there and constantly do dps without caring?
How’s your Rio score?
Nobody explained anything abour Rio so far?
Meh… my main abilities have like 12 to 30 yards range, so am I really a melee class?
I get your angle, but yes. Ret is still classified as a melee spec.
We did explain it way up in the thread, but if you have any further questions about it I’m more than happy to answer.
It’s not an issue in the sense that a +6 is perfectly doable with 199.
It is an issue in the sense that the moment you sign up, the party leader also has multiple 205+ people signing up from a wide brradth of different specs.
Right now, you can be fully 197 geared by just finishing the covenant campaign and afking in random battlegrounds. Add a legendary and maybe a lucky world boss drop and you break 200. I’m sorry but at this point you are behind the gear curve. 200 ilvl was impressive two weeks ago, but it’s not impressive anymore since the gear curve for casual players caught up to that. 200 is, in the context of pushing endgame content, the new starting point. And there’s a lot of people contending for your spot that are already way past that starting point.
Also you are melee, and you are a paladin that always has the stigma of being worthless no matter the actual numbers or utility you bring. That certainly doesn’t help, but I have been maining Ret for most of Legion and BfA and doing a fair share of pugging, I assure you, no matter your spec, no matter your Rio, no matter your achievements, no matter what sort of family history the leader claims to check, the golden rule of pugging is that if your ilvl is high enough, you get insta invited.
I was being sarcastic…
It very much has been. The only difference is that before you would be excluded from a group after getting inspected in Ironforge or Shattrah or wherever. Now you can be excluded from the group in the LFG tool and for some people that makes it worse because they feel it’s more cold and impersonal. I get that, some people take it harder when it’s just a push of a button and not a conversation, but it doesn’t change the end result, which is that you would have your gear/talents/achievements inspected and rejected anyway. This way you at least don’t waste 15 minutes of your life getting your character inspected manually.
I mean, you’ve got only 4 m+ dungs finished, all under 6, and 199 ilvl is bit low nowadays.
It’s a bit of a tough position, you need more 2-5 keys I guess, but you get no ilvl reward since you got all 197 pvp gear.
As for your bg/rbg complaint about retpala… retpala can hit people for 20-30k with kyrian ability, on rbgs/bgs.
With conduit proc, which procs often, that’s 3 judgement hits, that can crit, and add 5% max hp in damage each.
That’s kinda sorta true. In order for the multiple Judgements to even have a chance to proc, you need to have only 1 eligible target within 20 yards. So it’s essentially just a 1v1 duel thing. So yeah, you have a proc based chance to kinda sorta onebang someone in a 1v1… But how often do you get into 1v1s in BGs and how often do those 1v1s matter for the outcome of the BG?
LOL
Your aren’t exactly Mr. Current Affairs, are you Tommy? Divine Toll was nerfed In PvP on 8th of December 2020 to a maximum of 2 extra procs and the damage has been nerfed by 25% on top of that. That’s been a month ago. And it doesn’t apply Lawbringer to secondary target, or procs 5% damage on them. Works only for your main target. Why exactly did you think “that Ret was no longer meta”?
Yes it was, and yet postnerf I got one shot by this:
https://i.imgur.com/PXFHYI9.png
On an RBG.
It’s still very much overpowered. And in 2v2 arena ret+priest is still pretty strong.
If your main target is healer, and your conduit procs (52%+ chance it does), that’s a nuke once a minute.
I Just completed Sanguine Depths on M5 and even got Dying Breath legendary for a Holy Pala drop with like… 10 minutes left on the clock. And it doesn’t appear neither in my Vault progress, nor in the Rio website 
What, why?