I didn’t say it was bad. I said it clearly wasn’t engaging enough for you to feel excited about, so they have to keep you engaged with time limited rewards.
A big difference.
How is “It would affect your CURRENT gameplay” and you saying “I would be tempted to play more lazily” ?
But again… Collecting things and time gating them are not the same… You can still collect things in the game, but apparantly making them time limited is what gets you engaged?
How does it not?.. When my point was, clearly a lot of people felt forced to play M+ so when an alternative came?..
This is not about me or you. You claimed Time gating was implemented for “excitement” and “game play”, when they are not. I gave you a supportive point which you then go “Then I would seek help” ?
Again… Not the game play but the time gating of a collectable…
Never claimed you should… But again… You claimed it wasn’t about “time gating” but “create excitement”… It is not… That’s like saying cigarettes don’t contain addictive substances because they want you to be addicted but because of “the nice feeling”…
Aha… So now you can still have a challenge and not time gate it? Meaning your statement before was irrelevant. good.
I asked you. Because you made the claim that people wouldn’t play unless they made time limited stuff.
Again… Then the introduction if time gating IS for time gating and NOT for “excitement”. That’s the point I made.
Claiming they make collectable things (usually unique things) time limited, is not to make it more fun. It’s to drive engagement, which the business needs to do, but it’s a pitty that instead of focusing on improving the gameplay that would make the player base WANT to play above KSM or play ABOVE +10s
Never said they were THE problem. I just said they were put into the game for a reason, and the reason is not “excitement” although they CAN excite.
What I don’t really understand with these prestige rewards, is that some are treated differently than others, and I can’t see why.
The raid rewards sometime disappear (Trial of the Crusader “50 attempts remaining” perfect run cloaks / mounts) but some other times you can get them at a lower drop rate (final boss highest difficulty mounts).
Recolor/Alternate versions of the MoP challenge mode armors (legion class halls) but not the WoD challenge mode weapons.
Old PvP gear that needed rating to get (TBC/WOTLK) are up for grabs but not elite sets from Cata onwards
For some reason the first “Glory of the raider” mounts (Plagued and Black proto drake) were removed but we can still get all the other ones.
I came back recently and to my surprise some of my titles that were character specifics are now account wide (Mistwalker, old pvp ones, etc), but some stayed the way they were (I believe, I’d need to log on to check)
It feels a bit random to me…
I feel Blizzard should choose to either allow us to get every rewards that were time gated after some time, or none at all.
Realistically they should implement everything they ever took away, but make it obtainable through the content in which it was attained.
Vicious Saddles are the best example, you missed out on a PvP season? Here, if you PvP enough you’ll earn it eventually. And that’s for when you’re done with this season’s reward, so it’s not all free willy nilly either.
T3 implementation is also a good way to do it, needing some OGs from the time, a BIG grind and good time. Many players will still steer clear of this because of the sheer commitment required to make just shoulders + head for T3, as an example.
It would help make rare things stay rare, while still letting players obtain old appearances like the Corrupted Ashbringer, Atiesh or any removed item in the game.
Or like new Mage Tower, lock rewards behind an evergreen system that keeps getting tweaked so it stays hard and challenging. Those challenges are still good, and difficult enough that you feel you earned the rewards.
That statement is incorrect. No truth to your analysis of my feelings.
Would Affect = Absolute
Would be tempted = not absolute.
I have explained the reason why having them as time limited increases the game participation at a given time.
It has nothing to do with how good the game is. It’s about making the game standout about its competition. It’s not that the game isn’t good, it’s just that its competition is also good. For the record the only game I play is WoW, the competition WoW has with me is real life.
Collecting is a big part of WoW, but it isn’t WoW, even if there are players who think it is or want it to be that. WoW is a progression based game of challenges and collecting is something that you do along the way. Cosmetics have always been used as those trophies, so when a Challenge is timelimited due to the nature of how the game progresses over time, then you’re going to get time limited rewards.
Just like I felt forced to do Delves because it was an easy way to get Heroic level gear in the first few weeks.
I would have much rather have done old difficulty level of M+, but unfortunately Blizzard removed those, and made the game less enjoyable.
Still as I said, different people enjoy different aspects of the game. Some enjoy M+, some enjoy Delves, some enjoy neither. So it is good to have more options.
I’ll be clear. I use the word “you” when speaking about a third person. It’s not directed at anyone in particular, but more someone who might be reading this who might find themselves affected by gaming addiction.
My point is, I have played WoW for 20 years on and off, I have collect time limited items, I have missed out on many time limited items. But I carry on and live a happy and healthy life. I don’t get upset that I missed something, because I know that when I do have time to play there will be something else to work towards.
Playing the current game/season already takes up more time that I would like to spend playing. So I wouldn’t even have time to go back and play old content for these rewards anyway. Oh and that’s another reason for time limited rewards, it encourages participation in the latest content.
No, I look forward to the game play. I enjoy playing WoW. But I have a busy life. But if I can some time to play over a month or two during a season then awesome it gives me something to focus on.
Nicotine and time limited rewards are two completely different things. You’re physically addicted to nicotine and can suffer greatly when going cold turkey, it can make you very ill and can take months or years to recovered (source:gave up smoking 15 years ago). There is no physical addiction to a computer game. Just turn off the computer, go for a walk, call a friend and find a new distraction. A gaming addiction is about changing habits and it only takes a few days to form new habits.
Ofcourse you can. But that is not how WoW was designed. WoW progresses and changes over time. that make these challenges time limited.
But players do play above KSM or above +10s. The reward is just there to say “hey you’ve put alot of work in, you can stop here if you want to”. So many players decide to stop there, some player carry on, other players like myself will just do it again on another class.
Ofcourse it creates excitement. It creates excitement around playing WoW. I’m excited to see what reward I can earn each season. I get excited looking forward to finding time to play the game I love playing.
It’s mainly due to the game changing over the period of time. Blizzard trying different things out to see what works.
The PVP sets from TBC and Wotlk were earnt differently to the Elite sets. They didn’t need rating to earn, they just needed grinding out. You could earn them doing BG’s if you wanted. It just took alot longer than doing Arena’s.
This whole challenge element is irrelevant in the context where things can get continuously tweaked. The Mage Tower challenges, and other similar events in the future, should be scaled around the relevant seasonal ilvl. I get that it’s extra man power and resources spent on “old” content instead of “new” but that’s the idea of something remaining evergreen.
You needed rating to get these items though. At some point in WOTLK you needed 2200 rating to buy the shoulders, and iirc at least 2000 to buy the weapons. You needed the arena points AND the rating to be able to buy them. There were also other pvp sets that you could buy using honor points from battlegrounds, without rating.
I don’t remember the exact rating requirements for each item in each season of tbc and wotlk, but they were definitely there.
You literally wrote, if they didn’t time gate you would feel tempted to play more lazily, i.e. you’re stating that it wouldn’t keep you excited.
Where am I false?
Ah if we are really going into this kind, then why stop there? You do realize the millimeter goal post moving of a hypothetical right?
The fact that you are even considering that it would affect your gameplay clearly shows the state of it.
And since:
Keyword being “is” you literally say the collection of old stuff after it’s intended release would bore you. i.e. “absolute”
Yes. So have I. That was literally my whole point. But you claimed this:
Which is just false. You even changed it to:
So now it’s NOT about improving the game but
Which is exactly why, timegating is to artificially create engagement. Nothing wrong with it, but claiming they do it for “enjoyment” and not to lure people in, is naive. All I said.
Please go back and see what you are replying to… Because right now you’re just proving my point and contradicting yourself…
I’ll be clear too… when saying this isn’t about “you” or “me” it also counts for third person. This is not about individual level. This is about how a company influences consumers, and saying “You should just seek help” is removing all the predatory aspects from the company and putting it solely on the consumer, which is not fair.
Just like I believe most EU countries have banned alcohol commercials, just like in Nordic countries cigarettes in grocery stores are put behind a curtain BEHIND the check out… Should we just do the same there and go “Oh if you get addicted to substances, just seek help! Let the companies roam free!” ofc. not…
But that is what you’re doing here, when you take the full blame and put it on the consumer, and act like Blizzard has no other intention than to create “fun games” when doing things.
And my point is, this is still not about you. You may not feel a certain way, but things should be taken into general account. You have people that are not able to do things you can irl… Maybe WoW means more to them than it does to you. Maybe they go through things, and when they come back something cool in the game is removed because “hehe bad luck!”
At this point I think you’re just reading what I write… you go “No I don’t agree!” and then you present exactly my point back to me with different wording…
So why would you be tempted to play more lazily and change your feelings if you don’t care for the timed rewards?
OOoooh but when you compared it to drinking alcohol it was the same?
And using yourself as a source is not helping your case…
This just shows your ignorance on the subject matter. Gaming addiction, is just like all addiction not “just” a decision… It can severely effect your mood, psyche and other things… Dumbing it down the way you did is just… yeah… ignorant to say nonetheless.
How is time limiting a part of “WoW”… Now I’m speaking about the game, not the company.
And if it’s such a big part of WoW why do they keep adding things back into the game then? Clearly it’s not that important to the game?
Have you seen the participation numbers this season above +10? Compared to DF season 4, we are in shambles.
Again, you’re back to “me me me”. I spoke about your claim, not your feelings towards it here. You claimed something, and I claimed it wasn’t THE reason and gave you the more likely reasoning and provided you with arguements for it.
You’ve countered my arguments with “Seek help”, “No its not, I still love it”, and not anything really substantial.
As a veteran player this is something I want more than anything, more evergreen content, make the old world matter again.
I have 7 chars at 80, and 14 more at 70+. Sure levelling through the older expansions is fine and good, but once you’re done, well, you’re done.
Like after I got Invincible I basically have no reason to ever set foot on Northrend ever again, except during Timewalking and that’s only because the vendor is in old Dalaran.
Torghast was fun when it was only for the cosmetics, imagine if they kept adding new rewards and kept the challenge level on par with what it was. Dragonflight basically has nothing that will draw players back that have played the content, it’s a dead zone if you were there and got most of the rewards. A real shame, because the environment is still very beautiful.
I sometimes reminisce about the old times I had in the Barrens 16 years ago, and I still love the zone, but I have basically no reason to go there anymore.
Blizzard mentioned hero talents being evergreen, but when the next squish and prune happens, what will happen to that, too? How evergreen will Voidweaver, Colossus or Sentinel really be when they prune half the kit, or worse, like SLands, remove a whole tree because maybe only 30% of the specs play it?
I went a little rantish in the end, sorry about that. I just, ugh… I just want more evergreen content, instead of stuff going away all the time.
Then bring back old pvp elite sets too. Aswell as plague and black proto. Also why not bring back zulian tiger and amani war bear too. Also trial of the crusader immortal mount. Also chosen gear. Also insert any x.
Whats the point then? Just put them to the wowshop then lol.
Don’t you worry, your points are valid and relatable. I would love more intrinsically fun gameplay like Torghast for cosmetic rewards.
As for level squishes and talents, I’m speculating that they’ll simply have to be a bit more gentle with them. Can’t squish down to 60 whilst maintaining current talent structure. They’ll have to squish down to 80. As for removing unpopular hero specs, it’s unfortunate but if it means exploring a completely new hero spec that will be more popular, why not?
Speaking for DK that I’m more familiar, I find San Layn very boring even though it’s a relevant theme. They could explore other aspects of the class fantasy (Necromancer and Lich for example).
mate, I think we’re just repeating the same statements over and over again. I’m not going to reply to you anymore because this conversation is 2 days old (at least), and is more boring than running Delves.
We have different opinions on the game and its reward system. I can accept that, why can’t you?
I have all the MT appearences and I hope that more people will be allowed to get them.
Limited availability for infinite digital content is mobile gatcha nonsense.
But glad we came to a conclusion afterall and you agree.