The question is, do you want classes to be balance around good players or bad ones?
Because at the end what matters is that mages can easily survive stuff, due to their toolkit.
yeah but with that logic locks can be top dps as well or a really good sp can do everything . i donât think we should look at these with the capabilities of the toolkit because when you look at it like that it makes you think the game is really well balanced
Disagree, I think that balance matters around the top, due to being able to play correctly.
IF they balance for the middleground nothing will change for the middle ground, since there you are allready pretty free to do as you like. But the highend-game would suffer. (Thats what people usually watch, which is free advertising)
Mages toolkit is too strong for how good they overall perform.
When it would be me who decides I would balance dmg numbers with utility, deff and skill in mind. That way every class would get to do something⌠not the nightmare we have now.
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but it isnât tho . like i said half of the things listed are either not usable at the same time or have no power.
right now the game is balanced around top players and the balance is really bad.
retris dps sucks right now because of that and it only leads them to not get invites to high keys . only %3 of dps players are retris on top tier so that ââif they have utility they should do less dpsââ ends up being bad in practice . if you nerf DH dps nobodyâs gonna play it , if you buff it , everyoneâs gonna play a dh (as it is rn) so you either need to utility to all classes or just give the utility to healers / supports and let dps do dps in their own style like dots, burst etc. so people can pick the playstyle they want instead of picking the highest dps .
They have lots of CDs so thatâs not the problem
yeah because they donât have passives like locks so they have to handle it manually and like 4/5 of them can only be used once every fight
Every 20+ Iâm in with a lock , the lock is top DPS litterally.
Less salt to our mage friends please
Mage is the strongest M+ dps in the game right now (Frost and Fire depending on key), DH and aug close behind, then lock behind that.
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Yes, they are⌠thats why they are on every high-key lvl.
You dont have to have every part of the kit aviable at every time when your base-kit is allready strong.
This is more a number thing.
Its also a thing how niche or good the utility is. But they dont balance this stuff corectly.
Disagree, if they would balance for Top players they wouldnt have buffed mages that much. Since mage was allready A+ - S- Tier.
The truth is⌠blizzard mainly balances for raids. If you are lucky you get some M+ changes or some pvp changes.
What is an even harder pill to swallow is that blizzard wants to have certain specs allways strong, while the rest of us can have the spotlight once in a while. Thats why you see mages being atleast A tier most of the time.
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As it was, as it is, and as it always will be. The game turns 20 this year and balance was pretty much always messed up. If 20 years werenât enought to make them realize this, nothing is. Also, incomes. Gotta keep FOTM rotating so folks buy level boosts.
You didnât even understand what I was writing about and my main is holy priest too 
they have good utility but also perform really good as well
it isnât . itâs about toolkit and talents even if they buff retri it wonât be balanced because youâd still have to choose st or aoe
mage got the buffs because it wasnât gonna survive at high keys so they increased the dps . otherwise weâd be seeing locks & rogues with very few mages rn, if they balanced with low or mid range in mind they wouldnât nerf ele shaman before the season it was doing okayish now itâs meh. also like you said a mage can already do good / top dps at mid keys ,why buff it ? because it was gonna be replaced with others on high keys.the whole support class idea is focused on high end playstyle if you take a look at it. aug is really bad for mid level and low keys they literally added a class focusing on top players
Categorically untrue. Mage was already one of the best DPS in the game for high keys before the buffs and every high key player, upon reading the patch notes, was thinking why on earth were they getting buffs that would push them even further ahead of others in keys.
The buffs were for raids.
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Maybe not to you, but I donât care what you think, nor do I care that Blizzard has a hard-on for 3v3 arena in tournaments. I find it boring to watch and play, and seemingly so does everybody else as evidenced by the fact that both the bracket and the tournament viewership are basically dead.
I tremendously enjoyed those far more so than 3v3. But donât worry, itâs a problem in Solo Shuffle, too.
Depends on whether theyâre good or not, and also whether they are assisted by someone who is. Let me assure you.
Maybe not to you, because nothing will ever change your mind, that is clear.
No, it was because of raiding - and it was justified.
To all:
There are the same number of mages and warlocks at 25+. Stop complaining about things that only happen at +28-30. It doesnât matter to you. It will never matter to you, and if it ever does, itâs because youâll be MDI players and then youâll care enough about winning to reroll whatever it takes.
Thats my point?
Than this is no utility vs dmg problem, but a skill-tree problem
Beside that it make zero sense what you are saying here (A dmg increase wouldnt fix yoiur survivalbility). MAGE were allready A+ -Tier, before the buffs. They buffed it because of Raids.
They nerfed ele because they hate shamans, and because the setbonus was way too strong of an increase. As an Ele-Main I can tell you that much. Whats interesting to me is that they didnt buff to compensate for the nerfs <.<
Because they dont care for M+ balance that much⌠they look mostly at raid numbers, hence why they dont buff ele much because it sucks in M+
I think this mostly has to do with delegation issues, class design and rewards design are two separate things in terms of who works on them for the most part and tier sets fall under rewards not classes. Left hand doesnât talk to right hand, set bonuses are tuned independently of the classes theyâre attached to and you get what happened to ele this tier.
You cant talk about balance in stuff that blizzard literally not even look at. The only things we can look at is the things blizzard balances for which is Arena 3vs3, Raid and somewhat M+.
Its like talking about which class is strong in questingâŚ
Skillcaped says Mage is A-Tier in Solo-shuffle⌠So completely fine there.
EVERY SINGLE CLASS, EVERY SINGLE SPEC, EVERY SINGLE HERO⌠IN EVERY SINGLE GAME has a weakness somewhere. That doesnt change that the developers doesnt favour a certain charakter.
Mages are allmost allways A- S -Tier⌠and when they are not they are getting buffs quite fast⌠You think its an happy coincidence that its allways the same classes? That some classes get more attention than others?
Ele is horrible in M+ since DF started⌠and they needed till now to buff EQ⌠and the 50% still wont get them out of C Tier.
Now you have mage that gets buffed while being allready one of the strongest classes in M+
You are so delusional⌠its allmost funny.
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Demo lock and all mages are the only casters in the game. Topic is about this definitely.
And again, mages utility is better for M+ than warlockâs 
The thing is Ele was not really strong the whole expansion. So while the T-set was clearly too strong (If I remember correct it was an increase of 30%+ , I may mix something up)
but the base spec is clearly not doing enough dmg.
It clearly has a lot of issues that the Ele-community kept pointing out. Ele has 3-4 major issues.
- Its defenses are too low for higher content (atleast compared to other classes)
- It lacks unique Raid utility (Outside of enhc, shaman is the only class that dont bring anything unique to the raid)
- The scaling is of the dmg-rotation is completely bad.
- Spenders are too weak (its kinda Problem 3.)
It is really easy to fix.
- Give ele a stronger base DR or add the PvP Talent Burrow into the class-tree.
- Give ele an raidbuff totem â For example Skyfury-Totem (Nerfed for PvE if too strong)
- Either make LvB no longer auto-crit with FS â FS now increases LvB dmg again.
OR my fav. LvB gets a crit scaling like chaosbolt that increases its dmg with its crit-
chance. (In this case LvB maybe needs a little base nerf.) - Mastery buffs spenders.
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it would help since the boss will die faster .
yeahh i forgot about that wasnât playing mage on raids but i remember the charts .
with raiding itâs also about mythic raids not heroics. arcane mage was already doing good on heroic raids but it wasnât great at mythic they buffed it. Icyveins has a post from december 18th with pre-buff logs , if you check the buffed classes (retri, ww, mage,sp) they were all at bottom in mythic rankings .