Mage vs every other caster in M+

Not just DH but people that want to push keys will reroll to meta specs, or specs that fits in their comp.

So bad specs will be way less represented in the high keys range, giving people a skewed perception of how bad something really is.

DF season 1

Ranged DPS Tier List

Based on 2,728 runs, ranging in difficulty from +16 to +27.

  • S-Tier:
    • Shadow Priest (185.95)
  • A-Tier:
    • Balance Druid (183.68)
  • B-Tier:
    • Fire Mage (179.55)
    • Destruction Warlock (178.28)
    • Frost Mage (177.54)
  • C-Tier:
    • Beast Mastery Hunter (176.40)
    • Marksmanship Hunter (175.65)
    • Devastation Evoker (175.16)
  • D-Tier:
    • Elemental Shaman (172.02)
    • Demonology Warlock (170.06)
    • Arcane Mage (166.61)
  • F-Tier:
    • Affliction Warlock (20.31)

If anything, it’s you are who is raging here.

Using anything below 25 is gonna give you bad data as pretty much anything can push it up to that level.

Representation isn’t saying anything about performance either. And then we haven’t mentioned the problem with needing specs that complement each other in M+ either.

Ah, that was a S1 tier list. I think calling them B-tier is far too kind, but like I said there were some buffs during those two patches but it was still far from a good state. It was particularly 10.0 that it was truly bad. F tier doesn’t even begin to describe the state of frost during 10.0.

I don’t know if that info has been lost to the ages. Probably.

Imagine doing 100 DPS in full gear in S4 SL. So these numbers are normalized.
Then you level to 70 and get into S1, and your DPS is now 50. That was real. It was cut in half. I was sitting there wishing I could be level 60 inside the new dungeons.
Then you gear up to full, and it’s like 80 DPS.
After buffs for 26 weeks it finally gets to like 140, but you’re certainly not A-tier.

And then it turns out arcane gets nerfed for M+ making it a D-tier spec according to your lust (which, again, is far too kind)

Since all numbers go way up for S2 the SL-range numbers stop being the case, but you’re still B-tier at best, and then you come into this forum and have to hear “mages are aaaalways S-tier”. BS. Just BS. It’s that simple.

The lower the rating, the more it says about popularity. The higher the rating, the more it says about power.

So they buffed them in a week?

The first buff was iirc after a week but it was like 10% when what was actually needed was over 100%. Way over. They kept going week after week after week until finally, after 26 weeks, we were like C-tier. Lucky us, huh?

So if we look at data from this season, it looks like from casters there are only mages, demo lock, balance druid. Okay then.

And this is week 5 of season? …

It’s not much better for melee.

You’re either havoc or you’re outlaw pretty much. :dracthyr_shrug:

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Yep, and there are 100 topics about it. Yet one topic about casters and here we go.

yeah i think that’s the way to do this. fdks top keys are sad to look at . even top hardcore players couldn’t get the chance to do the content on the level of other players. also the isssue you mentioned affects mid level too. people don’t want certain classes in their keys. mages have to be fire for some people to invite them , no dks, no ww monk etc. wow community focuses too much on top level where literally %0,1 are playing

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Please avert your eyes. :face_exhaling:

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This topic is about casters and there are many casters that are poor performing. It’s basically you and this mage who only talk here about demo lock. (ignoring two other specs), and ignoring other casters.
Also, mage utility is literally best for high keys with their OP buff as well

I didn’t though. I think I’ve said 8 times now, including the first post, that I don’t. Infact, SP’s are explicitly mentioned in the post Breaths just quoted, and I’m very sure I also mentioned Affliction.

There are not many things that are more annoying than an argumentative person who doesn’t read the position of their opponent. But of course it happens quite frequently.

mage utility is there because mages don’t have lock like passives. like ishayo said just because top players play mage on stream doesnt mean it’s the only way. i think all locks should be good. ele needs more buffs , sp and balance needs tuning but they all have different things.mages dont heave self heal like others, they dont have healthstones, passive health regen, passive barriers, pi, interrupt is weak , you use mass invis and mass barrier to support the idea of mages having too many but you cant pick them together so its just an option. it’s not about mage being too good it’s others being bad that’s how we should approach to this topic

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I should note of course it’s not always about something being too weak. I do think Aug and DH are too strong and I don’t want to see all other melee buffed to their level. But i also simply don’t think there is a caster that’s way out of line. Again, unless you want to talk about the top 200 players, but you’re not them. It will never affect you.

aug is strong but if they nerf aug more it’ll be useless i think that’s the problem with it. i havent played dh but most of them do great so it’s probably still op. mage however doesn’t feel overpowered when i play it (i only do low keys btw) it feels good and rewarding but nothing extreme. when i try ele tho it just feels bad. that’s what i meant by that

You talk about defensives and their defensives are stronger than warlocks passive.
But beside that they also have party buff, and other things.

If you think mage is not op and the groups don’t benefit from them lots, idk what to say.

I think a lot of people do not understand why fire mage particular is so strong for high keys.

It’s not just that they do big dps with enough utility to make inspector gadget green with envy.

It’s that they do great aoe while blasting into one mob meaning that the dangerous mobs die faster making the pulls safer.

locks have curses which also is a party buff of some sort .

if the group is DH tank Rdruid healer mage aug and havoc then no group doesn’t benefit much from mages.