Subcreations list looks a bit different.
https://mplus.subcreation.net/all-affixes.html
Obviously fire and frost do not come out bad 
Subcreaton is not accurate in what it reports on this.
The tier list it reports is sus af.
As an example it say BM is on the same tier as balance druid while Bm has done 2 key levels lower then Balance druid if you actually click on them.
It also says Frost has done only up to 30s while on raiderIO the number 1 run is done by a Frost mage.
I posted about season 1 lol
Btw, on icy veins for current season last on tier list is Destro.
2 Likes
They make an calculation. Not only the top player per spec.
30 vs 31 when i open the details.
When i open details it says 31.
that just makes it more sus and not trust worthy as it is then not data driven information it is interacted with and that would favour specs that are more often played by more people.
Must be something buggy going on when i opened it in Edge and used details it did say 31 but in firefox it does not say that for me it say 30.
But regardless that is 1 key level different and doing the highest keys is how it should show S tier.
All Affixes
Based on 104120 runs, ranging in difficulty from +17 to +31.
You can of course disagree with the used method of calculation.
Are you trying to not understand what is being said?
The list is bad. Placing arcane lower than destro is pretty much insane. People who play arcane then donât know what they are doing. My husband beats DH pretty often in pugs as arcane, in high keys like +26
If you think mage was bad in S1 of dragonflight youâre insane. There were two S tier DPS comps for high keys that season, balance Enh sub and SP Havoc Frost / Fire.
Fire mage has been in the top performing mythic+ comps every season of dragonflight. The one season it looked like mage wasnât going to be top dog (But still good) they get buffs they didnât need that put them back on top. Thatâs why people are mad.
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I didnt, I dont even care for Mass-Invis at all atm.
It is, but shamans are not the standart for kicks, Shaman has the best kick ingame.
The standart is: Melee 15 Sec CD, Range 24 Sec CD
Decurse helps with an affix and the rest depends on the dungeon, therefore having the option to have it is extremely good.
It doesnt need to be, its something they bring regardless. ON TOP OF THEIR INT BUFF.
And?
It is an incredible usefull thing to have. The arcane version is busted, btw. But since everyone plays frost and fire. Noone says something about that.
You skill them and have them aviable⌠your rotation doesnt matter if you speak about utility.
I know, shaman has lots of utility aswell.
The whole design around shaman was to have lots of utility.
But here is the kicker, Ele no longer has anything truly unique to them in terms of utility, while also having clear weaknesses.
There is ZERO reasons RN to take an Ele in your group, especially if you have a mage.
Mages were supposed to be squishy, but they are not. A good Mage is allmost immortal in M+, while shamans die easily. They also do less dmg than mages.
RN and for most of M+ History a mage just outclasses Shamans.
Funny sidenote: Shamans have to skill their kick and Frog, while mage gets it for free. We have to skill our LvB procs (Which was core for allmost all of ele history) and firemage gets hot-streak for free. (Not that it matters but interesting enough)
Ele-Shaman sucks the whole expansion in M+, it rarely gets any buffs⌠Mages get lots more adjustments overall.
And this is not even a shaman specific problem⌠you will see that a lot of classes being treated badly compared to the blizz fav. children.
And IT SUCKS.
But they have it? And they have intbuff.
No I say, GREATER INVIS, which makes Invis a 60% DR on 2 Min CD
I am not saying that warlocks are not strong. Mages are just better.
I think you dont realize how much difference it makes to have an ââokayishââ absorb on everyone on higher keys. It easily makes the group survive and creates room for the healer to heal certain mechanics.
Survivalbility on higher keys is the biggest factor, most of the time.
2 Likes
This.
For M+ players it was an A+ -Tier class gets buffed to S-Tier, for no good reason.
While a lot of classes still suck.
Mage actually has the best non shaman ranged kick. Shadow is 45s, balance is 60, Evoker is short range, demo doesnât work on raging, and on top of that mages isnât 24s like hunter / lock / Evoker anyway.
This is gonna be good.
Noone care about 2s anymore, Blizzards focus is on 3s.
Strange⌠skillcaped says Mages are overall A-Tier.
Who do I believe, professional players⌠or some random dude⌠hmmmmmmmmmmm
RBG is like 2s, noone really cares about it. Especially not blizzards.
Skillcapped says hi
Strange I have seen multiple vids by skillcapped that tell otherwise
9.2.5 PvP TIER LIST FINAL UPDATE! (Shadowlands Season 3 Ending) (youtube.com)
The reason is simple, RMX is one of the strongest comps of all the time.
They are OP for most of their existing⌠MOST.
Calling people out for their reading comprehention while yourself suck at it, is not the smartest thing to do.
2 Likes
Jop, their kick lasts the longest with a big range, while also be able to skill into it being only 20 seconds CD
I dont really concider Priest-silence a kick. And Beam⌠while it kicks is also more of an AOE silence, so that one is mixed
Lock have good kick
Demoâs kick doesnât work on mobs that are raging because for some reason the CC immunity raging gives doesnât work like other CC immunities. Same with priest silence, itâs really annoying.
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Please leave my mage alone 
Its fine if you are a warlock all jelly at the mage fantasy and all they doâŚ
But you choose warlock to be the anti hero of mages⌠Making mages suck wont make Warlocks better. It will just cause more threads and forum posts of dislike and malice.
You start by making request for a class to be nerfed now because of your jealous of it. Others are gonna start doing it too.
Not a trend I think will make wow a more enjoyable game for any of us in the end. If that becomes the new norm.
demolock is already competing with fire mage , people donât play it because itâs boring and has outdated design. not because it canât do the same damage. mages are fun
As much as mage has been consistently one of the strongest dps classes in the game since vanilla, I donât think they should suck. HOWEVER there has been a trend of mage being good / middle of the pack and then still receiving buffs until itâs the best spec in the game for Mythic+, meanwhile specs that often spend their time being at best middle of the pack only get buffs that put them to at best middle of the pack.
The buffs mage got at the start of 10.3 they, from a mythic+ perspective, did not need and the predictable outcome is that mage is in the best Mythic+ comp in the game for the 3rd patch in a row.
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Yes, it will.
Nerfing the top specs will allways make the specs below them a better, since it closes the gap between them.
1 Like