Mage vs every other caster in M+

Community General Discussion
301

My experience as mage has always been the same as my rogue…

There is always at least one spec that is ‘‘the meta’’ for the current patch. But Blizzard flips it and changes it every season.

One season and such its frost mage… then its fire mage. And so on and on.

Same with Rogue. Used to be Outlaw was the all around king spec of all content until Shadowlands and Sin and sub started to see some love. But it changes all the time…

And you have to learn to play your class and spec over and over.

You also have Druids xD who no one for some reason NEVER talks about almost like its illegal. They are better tanks than every tank. Better Rogues almost than rogues.

And always really great healers. Omnipitent class no one ever touches or calls for a nerf. But can do everything your class role does just better.

302

I agree with you on the whole, but I’d like to single this out and say it’s definitely fire mage more often than it should be. >_>

EDIT: Okay don’t agree with you on feral vs rogue or guardian vs all other tanks right now, but sometimes it’s true.

303

Fire mage has been in the top Mythic+ comps for all 3 seasons of dragonflight. Frost has only been slightly behind and only seen less play because fire was as strong as it was. There has been no flipping.

1 Like
304

But fire mage takes a trick to it not everyone gets to play it… If it was just common play and casual to play Fire mage like it is to play frost. Every mage would be rolling fire by now.

Every mage wants to be either Fire or Arcane but everybody sticks to whats safe. Frost mage.

It’s not that easy and casual as people make it out to be.

The players you have seen are just good at it. They are good at Mages and their rotation. Its not like every mage can just switch fire and arcane and just pull it off like that you have seen.

305

warlock can already do more dps than mage and is more tanky so if mages go down, so will warlocks

306

Don’t even focus on that lol. It’s all dead.

Well, statistically, they’re plain wrong. Then again, it also almost always makes its way to the most difficult tier on the SkillCapped videos, so perhaps these two things are related. In fact, it almost certainly is.

See the problem is, if you’ve got this class, and we’re only looking at PvP now, where the skill floor is high but the resulting power is also high, then you’ll get yourself a little elite club and a whole lot of salt. Which I think sums up the situation quite nicely, really.

I mean, when most other classes go crazy OP the whole ladder fills up with them like a plague. 30% rets, 25% DH, I’ve seen it all at this point. Except 30% mage. No matter how OP we get, that just doesn’t happen somehow.

Well, I did. It was my bread and butter back in the day, but it’s all a joke now. They’ve ruined all of PvP really.

EDIT: There were more people playing 2’s than 3’s at all points in WoW’s history as well. Just saying. I get it’s likely because it’s easier to get a team as well, but still - I think it says something important.

Isn’t it funny how you just don’t care about numbers at all and all you care about is what one guy on SkillCapped says? Especially given that what he says here is true, but a half truth, because he said the other half of the truth elsewhere. Have you ever actually tried paying for it? I tried once and all I got was like 5 explainer videos from someone I could barely hear playing my class.

You do realise that all your arguments actually weren’t a refutation of what I said at all, but rather an alternative perspective, generally offered by SkillCapped, right?

307

Balance and guardian suck right now, feral is worse than rogue in pretty much every way, resto is the only good druid spec.

Your perception of this game is divorced from reality.

308

Balance druids are great dps and they bring that massive sun beam silence with them that makes every m+ easier for everyone. I see good Balance druids on par with fire mages and such if the Aug evoker blesses them with their buff instead of the mage<.< They do good dam.

Guardian druids are great tanks too. But then again i don’t play at above 20+ levels.

But if we’re talking 11-20+ I think druids are great to have around.

309

If your a night elf druid. You have everything a rogue has pluss healing. Minus smoke bomb and shadow cloak.

You can shadowmeld as Vanish and heal your self and change forms and just never freaking die xD unlike rogues… Who when we have spent all our cooldowns. It’s rip gg for us.

310

And about idk… 30% less damage, no shroud, no cheat death, and no feint.

2 Likes
311

Druids don’t have the same burst and stuff that we rogues do… But they make up for it in self healing and just never dying anyway at least in pvp

312

Sure, they could take a nerf. But mage is stronger.

More or less, yes.

Depends on what numbers you are talking about.

Skillcapped is not just one guy but multiple people that play pvp on a really high lvl. Their lists are usually quite accurate, thats why I link their lists, its easier to find.

Funny thing to me is that, a lot of other people that play on the highest lvl also lists the specs in similar/the same tiers all the time. (Again, its just easier to find skillcap lits)

I dont pay for this stuff, and if their product is not good doesnt mean that the lists are not accurate or bad.

I was one of these people that liked 2s more. But the way the game nowadays work made 2s no longer enjoyable. And you can easily see that the reason is that all changes for pvp are clearly 3s oriented.

That has something to do with skillfloor and skillcap. Every idiot can climb quite high as an DH or BM if they are strong, but classes like mage cant just rofl down someone.

You have a similar phenomena for ele-shamans. They were extremely strong in 3s in the last patch and still are really strong, but people dont complain about them as much as they complain about others because there is counterplay to most of shamans kit + not everyone can play them.

1 Like
313

What? Rogues are way tankier than ferals in PvP and PvE.

If feral want to survive it also mostly has to go bearform, which totally cripples their pressure.

314

I disagree… Just out of personal experience but then again I mained a rogue for a long time. I never mained druid so I can only speak about them from observation.

But once my evasion and cloak of shadows is done for whatever mechanic or pvp scenario it might be I am done… I got my crimson vial and thats it. I am totally dependent on my healers to keep me alive pvp and pve wise.

Druids? Well i don’t play one and I just speak from what Ive seen. But they get into bear form… Cast rejuvenation and just never -Ever- Die.

But yeah… Of course they don’t do the same and equal damage that rogues do. Why would you even play a Rogue at that point if they could burst and do everything a rogue could. Pluss healing and never die.

If your a warlock and wanna do everything a mage can do. Why are you playing a warlock? Just play mage. Do people really want every class and spec to be perfectly equal to each other just with different colours and themes?

I am all for balancing and fair play but god damn.

315

Warriors vs every other class in M+.

lol.

I think Ferals would rather have Shroud and unbelievably more dps, than be able to turn into a bear and be tanky. Rogues do more dps with Blade Flurry than most classes do with their entire spellbook.

1 Like
316

Everytime tyrannical weeks starts there is one warlock in almost every group in 22+ keys :smiley:
I’m totally fine by mage being kinda OP
after all from what i saw on TOP player streames mage is mostly OP in coordinated groups so that’s right there is signal to not nerf it because i didn’t see any good mage in PUG since this patch started not FROST not arcane not fire

317

Oof I don’t know what to say anymore… But whats the point of classes and different specs anymore if everyone could just do the same thing just in different flavors and colours?

There is a playstyle and a gameplay to be good to each and every different class and spec.

Just asking them all to be equal and the same as everything? Where is the fantasy in that.

318

Nobody is asking all classes to be equal at the same roles. But there are classes that literally dominate. Rogues have among the best utility in the game, among the best survival in the game and among the best damage in the game. People are complaining one certain classes/specs happen to be the best at EVERYTHING.

To suggest the M+ balance is good is really quite laughable.

1 Like
319

exactly and the comp usually includes aug too. if you don’t put an aug to mage’s group it’s not doing that great

320

But what is happening here in this very thread is exactly that tho… ‘‘Either bring warlocks up to mage par or bring mages down’’

Class balance as far as dps have always been a balance issue. But now instead of asking for more balanced m+ dungeons people are asking for other classes to be brought down or up to their level.

I am just saying is this our new premise for class balancing ahead of us? ‘‘My class can’t use invisibilty like mages do… Either delete invisibility for mages. Or give my class it too’’?

‘‘I play a feral druid and I can’t cloak of shadows… Either delete cloak of shadows. Or give feral druids cloak of shadows too’’

Like keep going like that. And we wont have unique and different classes anymore.
It will all be Tank. Healer. and dps. And all will have the same abilities and skills just in different colors and themes.