i’d prefer a havoc , rogue warlock to do +20 over a mage if they have the same rios
hunters are okay , all evokers are okay, enhancement is good ele shaman can do the +20 . i don’t have to take a mage i also don’t have to get a BL either. bl is good but it’s not a must especially on the level i play
Good luck with afflicted and fishing for healer with bl.
Or, you can bring mage instead of rogue for example and give buff to warlock, healer, have bl and they will deal with affix. Or get them instead of warlock, or dh.
No, its not. On low keys maybe, but on high keys you need Defensives for the Big DMG that kills you.
Actives are stronger, therefore better at keeping you alive. Passives usually are not strong enough for that.
That being said certain passives are ofc strong and help a lot, especially against fails. But the higher you go the more important are abilities that reduce dmg.
Thats the reason why mages perform really good on high M+, because while having not a lot of passive mitigation they have a lot of Deff CDs.
No they wouldnt because they still would have Greater Invis, a barrier, Mirror Images, Iceblock and the spec spezific deff (Double IB, Cauterize or 15%DR on Barrier)
when you get constant damages none of these are enough. also mages take icecold which is a 6sec %70 dr instead of total immunity with IB .
sometimes barrier instantly fades away and you can’t spam it . there are times with mage that you don’t have any defensives to use and since you dont have passives you just pray for healer to do something to help you.
Do you play mage? 
yeah but only on low keys. i do watch a lot tho. do you play mage ? your husband’s experience doesn’t count
So it’s hard for you to press on defensive abilities? This is why mages are not OP? Alright
I also have frost mage and can do tons of damage on train dummies with awful ilvl, yet you think frost mage is mediocre.
you have to use them perfectly to make sure you always have something to press. it’s not easy.
i do awful on low +10s and murlok says frost is the 9th spec, wclogs say it’s even worse, yet you claim it’s good because you see good numbers at dummies ?
Well, let’s go together to train dummies tomorrow and see then. I will be on my frost mage that I don’t even know well how to play, yet I do lots of damage compared to specs like affliction/ele/destro.
How do you think destro perform, if even at stationary dummies it’s “not good”?
Your damage can be poor in dungeons if you don’t know the dungeons well/rotation/keybinds/and of course tank doing weird things.
Should we balance game around people who don’t play well? I also had a warlock in +14 who didn’t had rain of fire talented, so…?
why would we care about dummy performances ?
no , i’m saying it should be balanced around hc raids/ +15-25 key range not higher. you say it should be balanced around +31 which is like a very small percentage of the playerbase
Why not? I’m 100% sure, you don’t know rotation at all, even 50% of it, this is why you think it’s bad performing. It has very good burst damage too, that is really good for 15-20 key range.
Or just do raidobts aoe and use arcane intellect on mage and not on classes like warlock. Show how frost is bad at aoe…
Frost mage has one of the best mobility of casters too
That is more of a raid thing than M+.
The damage profiles in M+ are more bursty or frequent dmg comes in a period of time, which you usually also can overlap with a deff CD.
I know, just didnt had the name in mind. But 70% DR is as strong, especially if you keep in mind that you can do dmg while using it.
Thats why I say in higher keys. The more skilled your group is the less mistakes happen, the more controll your group have over the damage that comes in.
Higher groups specifically play around CDs Defensives and Offensives.
And under normal circumstances Mages dont run out of Deff CDs on higher runs.
Ofc, the less skilled your mates are the more uncalculated dmg comes, which makes passives more valuable.
But tbh, I dont even know why you think in case of frequent dmg the healer shouldnt be the one be responsible for your survival, since that it is literally the reason why the healer is there…
STOP RUBBING SALT IN MY WOUNDS!
cries in ele
What in the hell have you been smoking? They were horrible before. Literally the bottom of the bottom in terms off dps. They got a bit of a buff and slightly can contend now. They are good now. Did you even see how everyone avoided mages in mythic + before the buffs? in raiding all 3 specs were at bottom in terms of dps too. There is no way you can say that…
Btw, it’s cute that you think that warlocks don’t have to press their defensives CDs before the damage comes, just like any other class. Do you believe that the damage comes at random times in dungeons? I can literally tell you when you have to press your buttons at every boss fight and trash. Maybe you just need to learn the dungeons…? I know when it comes and I don’t play +31…
If you think it’s fun to play classes that blizzard dictates you to play, Idk what to tell you… 
The more I talk here, the more I understand that if I want to play caster and get invites ever, I will have to play mage.
No I saw how the top m+ mages were running the highest keys in the game and frost was clearly pulling it’s weight in keys in the hands of skilled players. The issues were entirely raid focused and the buffs did not need to impact their AoE talents or damage patterns at all.
We just can’t seem to go a season this expansion without Mages being top of the food chain.
What have you been smoking?
100% of 30keys the highest key level before the buff had a Fire or Frost mage in the run.
'Eyo how’s all you warlocks feeling about your utility this week? 20% healing reduction for this affix while I’ll be slowing them instead. :]
In other words, having me in the group will increase their healing from sanguine, having a demo lock will decrease it.
Somehow this utility hasn’t been mentioned at all by the way, which is fun.
Can’t wait for the in depth analysis on who gets screwed the most by volcanic.
Healers 
locks can set tp, that’s what I do all the time when I play lock. For many affixes