Mage vs every other caster in M+

[Ellipsìs-tarren-mill]

@Breaths-twisting-nether

the problem is people doing +30s should not be the basis of asking for nerfs, then the game is absolutely would be evolving around top players. even now they already care so much about high keys when they nerf specs. as i said before the bracket with most players should be the basis of nerfs and buffs since it will be more convenient. the elitist tuning is awful for low-mid tier players which is a bigger piece of playerbase than 3 guilds racing for +32

Why tune the game at all then. Everything could do a 20 way before any of these buffs / nerfs came out.

[Breaths-twisting-nether]

@Ellipsìs-tarren-mill

Why tune the game at all then. Everything could do a 20 way before any of these buffs / nerfs came out.

it doesn’t have to be a +20 , could be 25 or else idk which is the most popular i think it’s +20s. why tune ? to balance the specs. if you keep tuning because mage is doing good in +31 but not demolocks it means . if you nerf mage utility because it’s doing better in +31 it’s gonna affect most players .

[Gerikee-ragnaros (Gerikee)]

@Ayellin-kazzak

THE IRONY that you say this and then in the SAME post you say

Heroic DPS is hardly relevant, as good players tend to kill the bosses really fast, so every bursty class highly overperforms on those charts.

@Ayellin-kazzak

Do you know how many % of the playerbase actually finishes mythic raiding?

Mythic is relevant because of the kill timers. Earlier bosses (which are easy), tend to have 4-6 mins timers on average instead of 1-2 mins of HC bosses. So you can get a better grab on “real” progression performance. Sims are usually a good indication as well, but fight styles can mess those up pretty badly, so better to use real world data. (on the other hand, nobody cares if your class is #1 on M Fyrakk/Tinral, that should not be a balance argument, only if gamebreaking OP)

@Ayellin-kazzak

But that is LITERALLY what the newest buff to mage was doing.

For the average players, mage was not overperforming.

@Ayellin-kazzak

Just play Frost the easiest of the mage specs

Actually with the rework frost got quite hard as they say. Also still nobody cares about highest keys, 99.9% of players won’t see those regardless of class/spec.

[Breaths-twisting-nether]

@Gerikee-ragnaros

Actually with the rework frost got quite hard as they say. Also still nobody cares about highest keys, 99.9% of players won’t see those regardless of class/spec.

exactly and if you nerf mages that will make them not being able to do +31s and it wont help others lol. groups will switch to melee dps instead of getting casters.
if you guys think you spec is underperforming or lacks utility, ask for that. don’t ruin the game for average mage players(not talking about myself as i’m a low mage player)

[Wholyrizk-twisting-nether]

No they can not. Funny how you can sound so certain about a thing and at the same time being clueless

[Falsejaina-ragnaros]

@Breaths-twisting-nether

know about the god comp but that was also about fire’s tier set . which isn’t a thing now .

Still is… they were OP because of their utility, aka 5% intellect buff to evoker, survivability, etc

@Breaths-twisting-nether

could be 25

Yep, and at already that level mage has the best caster toolkit for m+, along with good damage

[Saikyoo-venoxis]

@Breaths-twisting-nether

it doesn’t have to be a +20 , could be 25 or else idk which is the most popular i think it’s +20s. why tune ? to balance the specs. if you keep tuning because mage is doing good in +31 but not demolocks it means . if you nerf mage utility because it’s doing better in +31 it’s gonna affect most players .

I said it multiple times allready:

Tunning around the average, low or mid player is bad and a waste of time.

Because those dont know how to play their classes correctly, and their content is so easy that you can literally finish it with grey-green parses. They can literally use their abilities wrong or however they like and it wont affect their content. Balance wont affect most of those outside maybe mid where they for whatever reason start to pick FOTM.

But balance affects the people that actually know what they are doing and thats why you should balance for them.

[Thellanah-aggramar]

The only sad part is that blizzard went from season 4 shadowlands fun shadow priest to this crap on a stick i do like that they reduced the legion shadowform a bit though

but still can you start caring now in the next expack.

Remove infusion to start with make it in to Hero.

[Falsejaina-ragnaros]

Yeah same with destro. Really sad because I started to play in SL and I thought it always will be good

[Breaths-twisting-nether]

@Saikyoo-venoxis

I said it multiple times allready:

Tunning around the average, low or mid player is bad and a waste of time.

Because those dont know how to play their classes correctly, and their content is so easy that you can literally finish it with grey-green parses. They can literally use their abilities wrong or however they like and it wont affect their content. Balance wont affect most of those outside maybe mid where they for whatever reason start to pick FOTM.

But balance affects the people that actually know what they are doing and thats why you should balance for them.

this is just wrong but i’m not gonna explain it one more time why it is wrong.
no one cares about +31 keys other than %0,1 of the playerbase .

@Falsejaina-ragnaros

Yeah same with destro. Really sad because I started to play in SL and I thought it always will be good

and nerfing mage won’t fix that

[Falsejaina-ragnaros]

@Breaths-twisting-nether

and nerfing mage won’t fix that

It will
P.s. did you train your rotation at dummies today on your frost mage?
Did you learn what other buttons do on your mage in dungeons and when do you have to press them?

[Thellanah-aggramar]

@Falsejaina-ragnaros

Yeah same with destro. Really sad because I started to play in SL and I thought it always will be good

IF shadow will stink and not as cared about in season 1 next expack this game is gonna stink.

[Saikyoo-venoxis]

@Breaths-twisting-nether

this is just wrong but i’m not gonna explain it one more time why it is wrong.
no one cares about +31 keys other than %0,1 of the playerbase .

Okay… since you lack common sense…

How can you balance a game for people that uses their classes incorrectly?
How do you balance a game for people that use ST-spells in MT-scenarios vice versa, that dont use their CDs correctly or even frequently enough, people that dont use their utility and deff cds to reduce the dmg.

How do you do it? Especially in an invironment where certain classes have a low skill floor and cap ergo can played ‘‘Effectly’’ on by a toddler.

I think you have no idea how bad the average player and therefore THE MAJORITY of the game is.

I will wait…

[Saikyoo-venoxis]

@Thellanah-aggramar

IF shadow will stink and not as cared about in season 1 next expack this game is gonna stink.

They will mostlikely get a rework again, or play completely differently due to hero talents (which wont be the case for other classes, but shadow)… because thats how shadow is.

I think shadow is one of the classes with the most fundamental changes in the way they work… Wouldnt want to play one.

[Breaths-twisting-nether]

@Saikyoo-venoxis

How can you balance a game for people that uses their classes incorrectly?
How do you balance a game for people that use ST-spells in MT-scenarios vice versa, that dont use their CDs correctly or even frequently enough, people that dont use their utility and deff cds to reduce the dmg.

meta is the real issue here once you fix it you won’t need this many balance patches. if you nerf mage because of +31 it will be inconvinient for majority of the playerbase. however if you buff destrolock to be viable at the most common keys (by viable i mean doing good dps with enough utility, not ‘‘anything can do it’’ mentality. this is where average numbers come in handy) then you’ll satisfy warlock player just like you do with mage players. elitist behaviour is the issue with this game and everyone thinks they’re better than others with such entitlement(not saying you do ) +25 key is a high key and people shouldn’t be worrying about inviting certain classes when they do that level . why +25 and not +31 ? because it’s endless and at some point it becomes a niche problem rather than a gamewide issue. you guys are focused on mage while there are specs that don’t get any invite and will still not get any invite even if blizzard nerfs mages. the need for certain class or sometimes even certain talents is not a good game design. the game design itself including affixes, forces people to have a meta . why nerf ele shaman when it was gonna be just a good A tier dps ? why not just nerf dhs on ptr and let them rule the season & get everything they want with OP characters before nerfs. mage are not op on low-mid keys (the place where majority of the playerbase is) but demon hunters are OP on every level. blizzard waiter for a long time to start nerfing dhs and it’s still not enough apparently. this isn’t about a good player bad player debate. it’s how certain specs struggle even on mid level keys when some has no problem at any level. nerf mage and now there’s gonna be warriors & maybe udks because of the fyralath buff(not sure how it affects them all) there won’t be destrolocks replacing mages if blizzard nerfs them. that’s why you’re wrong.

[Thellanah-aggramar]

@Saikyoo-venoxis

They will mostlikely get a rework again, or play completely differently due to hero talents (which wont be the case for other classes, but shadow)… because thats how shadow is.

I think shadow is one of the classes with the most fundamental changes in the way they work… Wouldnt want to play one.

what they need is a none Barbie doll dev team we need men that cares and make stuff happens.

they can start with removing shadow crash infusion.

Give priest hero dispersion silence as all specs.

then sit down and solve the dotting spread problem which is not fun.

[Bigbazz-tarren-mill (Bigbazz)]

@Saikyoo-venoxis

Its not a secret that hunters lack utility if you compare it with many other classes. They are also one of the squishiest classes in game.

BM hunter is easy to play though (probably the easiest spec in the game), has the benefits of both melee and ranged without either of the drawbacks, brings bloodlust and has incredible dps. Outside of the absolute top keys is one of the most sought after party members, and it’s still one of the only specs that has timed a 31 key.

We can’t be here crying about BM hunters when it’s probably the most popular spec in the game, even if Mage is better.

[Falsejaina-ragnaros]

@Breaths-twisting-nether

+25 key is a high key and people shouldn’t be worrying about inviting certain classes when they do that level .

Tell me you don’t know anything about the game without telling me. 5% int buff is definitely nothing in +25, no one needs bl, or DPS pumper with best defensives in the game

[Dejarous-draenor (Dejarous)]

@Falsejaina-ragnaros

Tell me you don’t know anything about the game without telling me.

Pretty rich coming from the person that didn’t know they could dispel afflicted on their healer main - and has been carried to all their 20’s.

[Falsejaina-ragnaros]

Strawman said this million times, but I guess you ignore: I didn’t know about it on my holy priest since I started playing it this season and didn’t deal with afflicted yet that week or previous seasons(because I started to play it this season, smh). Dw, I fixed my talents before pugging on my holy later that week.

Is your job is coming to different topics and assume that everyone gets carried? Feeling better about yourself? Very sad, I hope you are feeling well. Sounds like you have some trauma. Insecure about your runs, score? Poor thing

And yes, I’m definitely carried as worst healer spec in the game pugging + 22