Dude… are you even using your head?
S-Tier overperform.
A-Tier dont suck, they are infact good and fine.
B-Tier needs small buffs.
C-Tier need big buffs.
If you nerf mage, mage wont suck… a class that gets a light nerf doesnt instantly become B-C Tier.
IF mages suck after a small adjustments the class sucked on its fundamental level and is only enjoyed by people because it overperforms.
Yes, the game will be balanced then.
you timed 3 in the most easy season ever.
He has done only KSM and bought curve and yet acts like a high end player and thinks he knows each spec inside and out when all he does is a couple 12s on his mage.
Do you think its a coincidence that its allways the same classes that end up in the high-Tier?
Well people in general are stupid. Simple as that. The statement “make your life easier” is absolute BS. Even with a DH, Mage, Aug “meta comp” of today.
At best you do a +1 key than with any other spec. Assuming the tank knows what he is doing and the healer too.
And lets go a step further. You make an offmeta comp of F tier specs. … and you can still do -2 key levels less than the top of the world.
So all this BS… its BS… none of us here are competing for 0.1%… so…
I mentioned “more dps than a dps” to exagerate. But healer dps is compared to other healer dps. It would still be higher than others… so… even if you tweek numbers RShaman would still be higher than Disc in my example. And still be uber meta.
www .icy-veins.com/wow/restoration-shaman-pve-dps-guide
Under The seventh healer specialization: Battle Shaman
This is a nightmare for pugs and low keys and healers that aren’t as strong as the stronger healers. We saw how that went with RLP on the beta - it was almost impossible to finish a run early on in the beta and then it got nerfed even more on live.
Early season 1 halls, Hyrja was borderline impossible to heal as a holy priest because we were so weak. We got buffed several times in a row and then the dungeons got nerfed as well.
A lot of runs in halls of infusion in season 2 also went straight to hell on 3rd boss because people don’t know how to play around high constant damage, expecting the healer to just carry it on their own.
The raging tempest in nokhud killed a good deal of the runs due to people not being able to heal it. It was a complete nightmare to heal as a holy priest and very faceroll to heal as a resto druid before it got nerfed into oblivion.
If I didn’t hate how much busywork resto druid dpsing is, I would play it because of how much easier it is to heal stuff but I seriously CBA with how they dps. I would play holy paladin if HP didn’t exist.
Did you try resto shaman? I find it fun. I also find it easier to play with melee as holy, since they stack… it’s really stressful playing holy tbh…
I have similar view on healers, also, leveling druid and trying to DPS as leveling, maybe will stick in my head this awkward DPS rotation (I have three druid heals at 70 though 
)
That’s not the case though. Loads of dead specs and even a few dead classes. As I said from the start, that’s the real problem here.
But Warlocks? Yeah it’s pretty much true.
Honestly if this is going to be our approach just remove classes. No point.
Look everybody, if you’re massively envious of a class that has to use, and has, lots of cool-downs due to being squishy instead of taking the hits with massive health pools or plate armour and the like, just go mage and rogue. They’ve always been like this. Literally always.
And if it ever changes, the class is dead as a concept. 
I’d rather like to look into the fact that the entire difficulty scaling boils down to just making hits bigger, eventually resulting in damage that cannot be tanked no matter what. That breaks everything.
Ive been asking for specific examples. Give me 1 “dead class” that cant survive some mechanic a Mage can. Because we were talking about mage defensives here.
Im still waiting. Name 1, il check on Raider IO and see how far that class can go. 
Let me do a test: So BRH has been timed on +30 Tyranical with a mage. Some dude called “Moonmage”. So Affliction ladderboard for BRH tyranical is +26 and for Destro its +29 tyranical, and for Demo its +29 tyranical.
Not bad… whats your point here? That Affliction is not in a good spot apparently? Yes. Agree. But its good enough for a 26 you know… 
And if you insist on going further than you can always re-speck to the other 2 and push even harder. So no biggie.
Like I said… -1 keystone. With some few exceptions. So anything LESS than than that is a L2P or group coordination issue.
You are obviously missing the point. My point is that mages are fine defensively. Its only NOT ok when 1 class can cheese mechanics others cant.
Cheesing and “using defensive CDs” are two totally different things.
For example: Warlocks can port, mages can blink, warriors can charge. Its the “mobility” mages have. And its OK. Its what makes mages “a mage” basically. As you 100% say and you are 100% right.
HOWEVER:
When mages can cheese the root mechanics of WM tree boss with blink, THEN I have a problem. Either EVERYONE can cheese it (so warlock with port should also be able to remove them) OR, NOBODY can. So you keep your blink, but it does not remove that spike.
Thats what im asking for. And its far from making every class the same.
People here complain that mages are immortal with a massive toolkit of defensives. And ive been asking people what mechanics a mage can cheese with that toolkit that nobody else can.
Because if nobody can find some mechanic mages can ignore, or cheese… then mage toolkit is fine.
Bruh, are you seriously saying the amount of mage defensive are fine when we got classes like shamans who got 1 defensive cd (2 if we count earth ele)?
And on the topic of mage cheesing mechanics they can cheese any mechanic that require you heal the target up to remove it with alter time.
Im a shaman myself. Based on the damage profile of dungeons, do we need more defensives? Yes. Specifically, we need a short small CD defensive for the small but numerous little things. This short CD can be more HP, more armor, a shield, some Ignore Pain mechanic. Something.
1 big massive 60% DR wall for 12s (best wall in the game, better than tanks wall may I remind you) sometimes cant cut it. And using the best interrupt in the game sometimes cant cut it to run smoothly through some mechanics.
That is “shamans need defs” with specificity. With a bit of detail.
What does that have to do with mages though? Why do we need to nerf mages to feel better about ourselves? A shaman is a shaman, a mage is a mage. Nerfing mages wont change the fact that Shamans are squishy.
So YES. Mages are fine.
OK. Name that mechanic. Maybe… dunno… the bleed of the 1st boss of DHT ? So they can remove it once every 2 minutes when the mechanic happens every 20s or so…
Thats hardly cheesing IMO.
In fact, on THAT boss, I bait the cat leaps. Why? Earth shield (-6% DR), MASSIVE vers DR (shaman stacks vers), Mail Armour AND a shield (as much armor as plate DD)… I heal myself back up with 1 riptide. Instant and EZ.
No deff CD rotation, no Aug cauterize, no nothing…
THAT is cheesing…
Or maybe the neddles of the 1st boss of WM? I can see WHO will get it on my party frames. Pre-cast earth shield on him for -6% DR and +100% extra healing. 1s prior pre-cast Healing Surge. Dude gets needles, surge lands and instant riptide. DONE.
If the DD wants to help out a bit, a short CD deff is fine. If he gets double hit by casts (highly unlikely but possible) then use pot+wall. But every class has this wall (even shamans) and many classes have a short def CD (ignore pain style).
Thats the only moment where its UFF to heal that. So mage have a wall for that. So do shamans.
The cats in DHT also, the thorns witch in WM and there’s probably some other mechanic I cant recall of the top of my head.
I answered your questions right there. Those 2 specifically.
NO. Mages cant cheese the mechanics.
Yes, mages can cheese mechanics.
Destroyed.
Saying no does not make you right, you asked for mechanics mages can cheese and when provided with examples you just go NUHU those dont count because I say so!
You being able to deal with it mean nothing if the mage can allow you to ignore it and save cd’s / mana.
OK. I wont say so. Even though I explained on the post above step by step how a 2 min CD wont negate a 20s mechanic. Or in other words, how I can do it even better than a mage but im a shaman with 0 defensives. But OK.
You say how a mage cheeses those mechanics. Start by explaining what “cheesing” means for you. And then tell me… how exactly would a mage cheese those 2 mechanics.
And by cheesing this is what I understand:
A mage can use an ability that will completely negate/remove a mechanic. Once during a 3 min boss fight where that mechanic happens every 20s, or, targets random people in the party (cant go with 3 mages can you?) is not cheesing.
If you can use that ability that negates the mechanic, EVERY time the mechanic happens (and you can bait that mechanic every time on yourself) that is called cheesing.
no ?
you keep defining things with your own ideas and then believing that that’s a fact lol.
it clearly won’t be.
demo lock spent the entire expansion on s-a tier when mage sucked for 1.5 seasons.
We just have a different opinion what is cheesing then, any class that is able to often negate or trivialize a mechanic on a boss counts as cheesing to me, for example DKs can AMs every curse on the coven boss.
Mages got so many defensive cds that they can rotate that they can trivialize almost any boss mechanic and in some cases straight up negate them several times in a boss fight.
You are literally claiming that because warriors have spell reflect they can negate every mechanic and should be nerfed.
They cant. First the mechanic has to target them specifically and no one else in the group. Reliably. Every single time.
It does not matter if a mage can ignore a mechanic IF it targets him. Because IF it targets him twice in a row he is dead. OR, if it targets some other party member who cant negate the mechanic you have to execute it as intended.
Its not like a mage alone can carry a key because he can bate every single dangerous mechanic all on his own.
Like spell reflect if you wanna. It technically can reflect the super dangerous “drown” spell from ToT sentries. And by doing so, you literally kill the sentry in 5 seconds from the reflected spell.
But you cant reliably make that mob target the warrior all the time. Unless you go with 3 warrior DDs, and 1 warrior healer. So you cant claim that going with 1 warrior that can negate 1 mechanic will carry a ToT key.
Well same with mages.
What coven boss? What curse? The one ANY shaman can dispel? On an 8s CD?
You mean the purple circles the which boss in WM puts? The one that if you simply spread you take 0 damage? So literally any class can do it? Is that the curse your talking about?
And DKs ave AM. Warriors have IG or crazy leech (depending on speck). All classes have a short CD deff… Except shamans that it.
And on that 1st boss on WM the best defensive in the game is simply to interrupt casts. If you can spam those reliably (any melee, shamans, ect…) its like THE best wall you can have. It makes the difference between wiping or trivializing the boss.
Whats your point?
It is -2 or more even some -4
Blood Death Knight, Guardian Druid, Protection Warrior, Restoration Shaman, Preservation Evoker, Retribution Paladin, Fury Warrior, Windwalker Monk, Subtlety Rogue, Assassination Rogue, Unholy Death Knight, Frost Death Knight, Survival Hunter, Feral Druid, Arms Warrior, Destruction Warlock, Elemental Shaman, Marksmanship Hunter, Devastation Evoker and Affliction Warlock.
Is all the specs that are -2 or below in keystones.
keep in mind -2 is considered bad balance and we have specs at -4 in this list.
That mage defensive are to many and too strong? Think that was pretty clear.
For example this is wrong as the strongest wall is a mage defensive cd that provides 70% damage reduction while healing you. 