Major gearing issues

Community General Discussion
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Hello folks, so after getting disappointed by my weekly Vault yet again, I felt like creating a topic and ask you guys what you’re thinking about the current gearing system in WoW.

I myself find it rather broken and frustrating.
There are three key points I want to adress in this thread and those are

  • The Vault itself
  • Alts → Crest Caps
  • Catch up gear

The Vault

Now the vault itself is already rather suboptimal in my opinion and needs to see some overhauls. It would be fine if it was just some additional loot on top but currently it’s basically the only source of proper gear outside of mythic raiding.

That would be fine but the vault is absolute and utter RNG. It’s quite possible to not get a single upgrade (and I’m not talking about literal BiS here) for 5 weeks in a row.
There is no fail-safe, there is no bad luck protection, there is no re-roll. It’s bad and it’s frustrating.

Small side-tracking but - a friend of mine had 3 bracers in his Vault yesterday. I mean… c’mon. :smiley:

Having your entire gear progression tied to RNG without giving the player a real agency over it doesn’t feel good at all.

There have been several suggestions how to solve/alleviate this issue like:

Making the Vault entirely deterministic
Yes, a rather crass option but with about 15 item slots, this would mean that it’d take you 15 weeks for BiS gear. That’s over 3 months. Won’t ever happen though, so I don’t think we need to get into the details about this.

Implementing a fail-safe/bad luck protection (suggested by Uda)
So, rather than socket slots, why not just let us also buy item tier upgrades, that let us upgrade an item to the next tier for 12 Tokens, for example.
This way, it’d take 2 weeks for you to upgrade your heroic track item to mythic track, for example. The amount of tokens required is debatable ofc.

Blacklisting Items
Another option could be to allow us to blacklist certain items because, let’s be honest here, the loot table is far too big in dungeons and is littered with absolutely unusable trinekts because Blizzard can’t be bothered to itemize old gear properly and just yolo sends them into the loot table anyways.

Granted this option might lead to BiS gear a bit too quickly, the next option might be a better fit but it’d be still nice to be able to block up to, let’s say three, items from dropping in the Vault. I really don’t want to see a [Corrupted Eggshell] ever… This item is an insult to even exist.

Blocking duplicates
Maybe let us block duplicate slots. What I mean by that is that they could give us an option to block items from dropping in the Vault, when we already have an equivalent item for that slot.
So for example, if I already have Tier Set shoulders, I don’t want to see ANY other shoulders dropping in my vault because that’s just redundant. So I want an option to “uncheck” shoulders from being able to drop (only available if such an item was already aquired).
Ofc some people might still want to get new shoulders - thus the opt-in/opt-out option/checkbox.

Freezing items
This “tech” is already implemented in the trading post and could be utilized for the Vault.
Let’s say you get two really good items in your vault but you can ofc only take one of those. Let us just lock/freeze the second one so it guaranteed to show up in the Vault next week.
This strikes a nice balance I think because it has the potential to counter completely useless Vaults.

These are some of the suggestions on how to solve the issues apart from the Buillon system. If you can come up with any other solutions - feel free to share them!

On to the next point:

Alts

Now this expansion was supposed to be really alt friendly and I can see that in the lower end of difficulties/in really casual content but once your character gets into the mythic track gear range, this completely falls apart and a big reason for this is yet again, you’ve guessed it, the Vault.

So let’s roll this up from the beginning. Let’s say you’re gearing up your alt because you kinda got sick of your main or your main got nerfed into oblivion or whatever. You just want to play a different character.

You level up that character and you hit 80, then you hit some Delves to obtain basically free juicy champion and maybe even hero track items to get a good start into M+/Raiding.
After that you venture into your first M+ keys. Probably somewhere in the +4 to +8 range, depending on your personal ability.
At some point you’re farming +7s/+8s for hero track gear and … Crests.

Now I missed to check what the current exact crest cap is but I think it’s around 1200?
That’s 100 dungeons you need to play to hit that cap and you need to complete ALL of the in-time.
Not only that but even IF you start right out with 8s after Delves, you also need to farm the lower tier crests from 7s in order to upgrade your hero gear.

That’s an attrocious amount of crests farming just to get an alt running.

But I could live with that. It’s farmable, just takes time and you can schedule that on your own accord. Sure, it’ll take a lot of time and can be annoying and SHOULD be looked at but I can cope with that.

What I can’t cope with is the next step. You’re at your crest cap and full heroic geared. Now what? Yeah, let’s craft some 636 items, sure. You craft weapon/s, neck, cloak, bracers, shoes, rings and now you just… stop progressing and wait for the Vault.

This brings us yet again back to the Vault. The Vault is such a fundamental (almost the sole) source of gearing, it’s flabbergasting that there is not catch up system implemented yet.

To look at a specific example: I switched from this Druid (who got his myth track vault the very first ID of the season), to my Disc as main.
My Disc hit 80 and did his first M+ 5 weeks ago, while my Druid already did this 11 weeks ago.
So my Disc is already missing 6 Vaults. That’s 6 potential mythic track items. To add insult to injury, 2 Vaults of those my Disc got where also useless. I’m not talking about “not BiS” but I’m talking about all 3 options being literal downgrades (simmed), except for the socket ofc which equates to what? 0.01% upgrade? Idk, it’s not a lot and I think sockets shouldn’t be a fail-safe but just an option that someone chooses when he literally already is full myth track/BiS to min/max his gear.

Now another alt, my Mistweaver, just hit 80 this Tuesday night. So he’s effectively missing 11/12 Vaults and honestly… I don’t even see the point in playing him until S2 hits. Sure, I can craft a lot but he already missed so many Vaults, I just don’t see the point to even start playing him.

Now imagine that’s not an alt but the main of someone who just got back into WoW last week. Great experience right? This gear gatekeeping is a HUGE issue. Why is there no catch up for Vaults? Literally why? You can’t tell me there’s another reason for this other than Blizzard just being too lazy to think about one and implement it.

This brings me to my last point:

Catch up gear

So supossedly, during the Siren Isle Update on Dec 17 or on Jan 14 new catch up gear is
to be introduced.
What’s this catch up gear going to look like? Because honestly, I’m certain it’ll be entirely useless for the current season and just is something you’d get to park your character while waiting for S2.

With the huge ilvl gap between heroic gear and mythic gear any catch up gear will be absolutely useless unless it’s mythic track, which it won’t be anyways.

Heroic track gear is already farmable, 14 Vaults will have been missed by then (that’s potentially almost an entire gear loadout).
The “catch up” gear is not a catch up. It’s just a shortcut to have a smoother start into S2 without having to farm +7s/8s.

Maybe it’s even supposed to be just that but that just doesn’t feel “catch up”-y to me.

Closing words / TLDR

So all in all I’d say there are 3 glaring issues that need to be looked at:

  1. Vault needs to be reworked with proper fail-safes/bad luck protection
  2. Vault needs to have a catch up system
  3. Crests need to be easier to obtain at a certain point during the season.

Or the ilvl gap between heroic and mythic track gear needs to be less extreme like it was in DF S2/S3.

With all the issues WoW currently has, the gearing system (actually just the Vault) is the thing that brings me the closest to quitting the game.

The RNG of the Vault already is incredibly bad by itself but it’s just a big NO to have absolutely no catch up system for this. The only viable way to play a season is to start playing in the very first week of the season.
There literally is no point in even trying to get into it once the season hits the 10 week mark because… why would you even try? WoW has an incredibly heavy focus on gear while depriving you of the options to aquire said gear (at a certain point), if you haven’t played from the very start. This is…I honestly don’t have words for this. Who comes up with such a system?

Don’t you want players to subscribe during a season? What is this? :smiley:

Thanks for coming to my Ted-Talk, lol.

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I think this is the first super long post i actually read from top to bottom and i couldnt agree more.
The Vault needs some serious changes.

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Thanks! I’ve tried to keep it short but I failed horribly because more and more issues kept popping up in my head while writing this. :sweat_smile:

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Gearing is a pointless hamster wheel that gets reset every patch. I only need gear if I’m barred from doing an activity. The only use I see for myth track gear is to push high m+ or to try and solo raids/dungeons that aren’t soloable otherwise.

My best advice is for people to stop playing for gear for the sake of gear. I don’t think it’s healthy. Play the game, don’t let it play you.

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Yes, I agree.

This is precisely what I use it for. If I didn’t do that, I couldn’t care less about gear. Gear to me is just a means to an end or a tool.

I play the game mainly to push M+. I’m not hardcore pushing but I’ve done my fair share of 13s on my Disc and getting into 14s.

Now, do I absolutely NEED more gear for 14s or even 15s? Probably not. Currently it’s a skill issue. Would gear help to make this a bit easier? Absolutely.

The thing here is - If I was unable to start playing WoW at the start of the season and could just start now, I wouldn’t even start because I would not be able to get past 620/625-ish ilvl for weeks.

With that ilvl, 14s would not only be incredibly hard but I wouldn’t get a single invite to a group anyways. Even people on my FL would probably just sparely play with me because I’d gimp THEIR progression with my ilvl.

The issue is that this game is gear focused and so is the community. It’s not only your own perception that’s hindering your enjoyment.

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They always fix the game on the last patch of an expansion, only to go back on that with a new release. I fully expect this expansion to have something like Bullion at the end.

Blizzard knows how to make the game enjoyable for the player, how to give the players quality of life, but they don’t do that until sub numbers dip enough to make that a carrot to pull them back in.

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I have always disliked the weekly chest for a lot of reasons you listed and was very early on with calling the vault a band Aid Fix that would not solve the underlying issue of a weekly gear lottery that takes over gearing completely
Good post

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Bullion isn’t meant to be standard gearing it’s a end of expansion super fast gearing so your op system. It was never meant as catchup for standard seasons

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I’ve stepped down from the gear hamsterwheel, asked myself what I want from the game and focused more on those activities. There’s not that much gear gated content in WoW at the moment, you can manage to do end game content with adventure or veteran gear essentially. The only thing higher ilvls do for you is to do things quicker or skip having to do mechanics in some cases. It’s been a lot less stressful not going for the highest gear lvls this expansion and it feels good!

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Yeah that’s usually done in the “yolo” seasons so the last season of an expansion where no new content gets addded and Blizzard just tries to “entertain” the few remaining players to get a keep a few subs until the next expansion launches.

That being said - there might be some middle ground to find here.

Unfortunately, this isn’t entirely correct. You absolutely need higher ilvl to not get 1 shot by unavoidable damage in higher difficulties.

Of course you can just do M+4s in veteran gear, if that’s all you want, but you won’t get close to clearing, let alone timing, a +14 with a group full of veteran gear.

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I don’t think gearing through M+ have issues at the moment, there’s enough gear in there to clear the content

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I have done and still do everything I need to gear my main because it’s my favourite character…
I have however levelled most of my alts to 80 and am still levelling others in-between…
The 7 alts I have at 80 I am not really bothered about gearing and I will wait for the catch-up gear just like I did in DF :+1:

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I got the impression from the very start they were going for the “What do you even need gear for?” stance.

Which for me is great. I only wanted the KSM mount and if I decide later I want the portals, the Hero gear I have is enough for that. I have no interest pushing keys so Mythic gear isn’t useful to me at all, so I don’t mind that the Vault is a complete disaster.

It’s a classic case of “When you put a curse on someone, dig a grave for yourself.”

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I have to agree the currency grind systems have to stop and give us a meaningful system to use to upgrade / acquire gear. Currency caps serve no purpose other than to prevent people from gearing faster than others.

On a side note 15s for a death in keys 8+ is beyond dumb.
Enable this on 10,s sure but let people learn and adjust to the higher damage output between 8-10.

I have timed nearly all 10,s (Only missing Ara Kara but i,ll do that this week) for people who say "10,s are too easy yes they are pretty easy but I am finding that the “skill level” for the average pug group is too high which is why a lot of keys are failed / ragequit.

The 5 crests for a failed key is also a joke… Serious 3 failed runs = 1 item upgrade.
Based on the fact a failed key can take 1hr thats 3hrs of grinding if you have 3 failed keys again this feels too harsh a grind.

Put gilded crests in Delves 8+ 5 for each person per completion and remove cap.

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Depends on what you define as “clear the content”. Up to 10s? Yes absolutely.

I’m talking about higher keys though.

Just remove it then. :smiley:

That’s really good for you. To my own detriment though, I enjoy pushing higher keys / as high as I can get. :confused:

Which is ironic because, let’s be honest here, people will gear up at different speeds anyways. I’ve done my first +10 within the first ID of the season granting me a myth track item. Hans just did a +4 and got an hero track item → I geared faster. So I’m not really sure what the purpose is.

This is something I’ve noticed the last few weeks too. PuGs have gotten a lot worse in 10s. That’s probably because gear carried all kinds of players to 10s and now they ofc also want to do the 10s for gear.

Just the other day I had an elemental shaman who neither decursed, nor kicked during the first big pull in Stonevault in a 13 even (he never timed anything above 11 before that).

I absolutely have no issues with people not playing perfectly or still learning but if you don’t decurse/kick, you don’t belong in a 13. I would argue you shouldn’t even do 10s.

But yes, the quality of players in lower to mid level keys declined over the weeks. It was FAR easier to do 10s 7 weeks ago than it is now in a PuG, which is ironic given how much better gear we have now.

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But how fast were you able to max out that Mythic item, Also you have to remember that the “average” skill level of your average pug group also comes into play.

That first 10 was in a pug ? or with people you knew?

Most people (Nearly everyone I knew except a couple people i knew were getting 10,s off the bat some were even pushing into 13,s ) but that’s not the norm for the majority of people.

Indeed so many people get carried I mean I do about 1.3m overall on my Destro lock which isnt AMAZING by any stretch but overall also depends on pull sizes and stuff.
But yes I do know how to kick, interrupt sensible use of Shadowfury etc…

And omg I do know what you mean by the 1st pull in Stonevault (If the fear doesnt get kicked) XD

This is also nice and not for everyone but i can appreciate the people who do and also remember tthere is no “I” in team so your key level will ALWAYS be dependant on the player skill level of your group.

I personally do not see the point in pushing keys higher than 10,s but my favourite type of thing to do is push with no healer, I recently done no healer mists 6 was out of time by a few mins but a lot of fun was had even with the deaths xD, Ofc this was not a pug group I cannot even imagine a pug group even attempting it XD

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It’s certainly dated now, especially with the move away from the game being an RPG. In post Dark Souls RPGs gear is much less relevant and the focus has moved away from it. A weapon can be upgraded to maximum and scaling makes armour redundant as attacks just one shot through it.

Well it ebbs and flows. This season I get to sit in the sun but maybe not next. I would be surprised if there isn’t massive change in S2.

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Doesn’t matter that much in this specific context because Hans was able to upgrade his heroic item at the same pace as I was able to upgrade my myth track item. Or am I mistaken here?
So my ilvl was inevitably higher just due to that. This even spiraled further because the higher ilvl made it easier to consistently do 10s and just farm them for crests and a full vault, giving me even more options/gear.

Mixed actually. I think 2 friends of mine and 2 random people.

That’s absolutely true but Blizzard said that they want just don’t want the hardcore gamers to gear faster than your average Joe gaming dad who doesn’t play that much. So I’d argue they kinda missed the mark there because the hardcore gamer is still going to get better gear faster.

While yes, Hans will at some point also get myth track items and have crests to upgrade them, while I will be crest capped but Hans won’t have enough myth track items to even spend his crests on. So he isn’t capped by crests but by items.

It didn’t … xD And the AoE fear, on a 13, does 4m damage on its own btw. Each curse ticks with 2.4m. The dmg output there is insane.

So you set your personal challenge, which is the same I do, just a bit different. And that’s amazing btw. I can’t do that… because I heal, lol.

Yes, I agree. I think the issue is that WoW wants to be too much at the same time. On one hand it wants to be an RPG, which has a big emphasis on gear but on the other hand it also wants to be this hyper competitive e-sports thing with leaderboards and gearing, especially RNG gearing just doesn’t go well with “competitive” and “e-sport”

I really hope so.

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On one hand I really do enjoy the current gearing system, because it allows you to catch up and or gear your alts very fast.

When I say “gear” I mean ~610ilvl

That being said… I am a healer main, I enjoy pushing keys and see how far I can get in a season. I want to play all healers, but it gets “halted”. I enjoy playing different healers, and not just rushing content on one, and then having that char “done”.

What I really dislike is the tiresome grind for crests / trinkets… Almost all 7 healers need a combination of the same 4 trinkets (Obtainable in M+)… And almost all 7 of them needs the one from Grim Batol… This means to be optimally geared for high end pushing Grim becomes and endless RNG farm where my head goes “Well, might as well run Grim for crest farm + chance for trinket”

“Oh but you can just care less and play other dungeons too?” yes. I could. But as I said, I want to push higher, so might as well get geared too… What then ends up happening is, I see a Dawnbreaker +8 only missing a healer, I check my gear “Nope, nothing needed from DB”… refresh page until Grim Batol +8 is listed

I think it’s a wrong view, that people will quit playing if gearing becomes easier, of course fully BiS geared day one, is not what Im saying… But the ability to push on more classes, specs, roles would probably make people play more than a player thinking “Oh I want to play Hunter!” and realizing they would have to spend weeks farming just to really push the limits…

So I fully agree!

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The whole game concept is based off gear , if i feel like pushing high keys , ofc i will go for more gear , wow gearing system is getting the feeling of your character getting stronger , unless your a transmog collector or an achievement guys , weird take.