I read that like 5 times and I still have no idea what that means lol^^
Care to elaborate?
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Even tho I don’t agree with his original post, I am too for some sort of “M+ finder” and so far I didn’t read a single valid argument against this kind of idea.
Everyone is only listing issues, that we already have in the pug environment. Meanwhile the issues we have right now are worse than what a “M+ finder” would ever create.
And then there are weird ways of thinking, like in your case. Why would someone “force” anything on anyone? It’s not a replacement but an addition.
The only people who are forced to anything, are the ones who don’t have a pre-made, want to play M+, obviously preferably with a M+ finder but are forced to pug. That’s what means being forced 
Having “M+ finder” as an addition is not forcing anyone to do anything.
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Current situation: I list my key, and spend a few minutes selecting players, and then five players are off to do a dungeon.
What you think will happen: I list my key, the group fills a bit faster because there’s an automated selection process that is probably less strict than mine, and then five players are off to do a dungeon a bit sooner than with the current system.
What will actually happen, pick one or multiple:
- I avoid listing my key until I have some friends online that I can pre-select, before listing.
- I list my key using some player-made system where I can vet applicants.
- I list my key with your system, but if I don’t like what I got, I just don’t run the key.
None of which will lead to more keys being run.
This isn’t what always happens though… so why pretend it does? Yes sometimes groups can form quickly, sometimes it takes ages to get a tank or healer, and that happens especially in lower keys. Higher keys, its not as big of an issue, which is one (but not the only) reason why I excluded them.
Also sometimes I just don’t want to play the key I have. I’d rather do another one at the same level and change it at the end. So running your own key is not a perfect solution either. But the worst thing is when you try to get into a key for quite a while, then you resort to running your key, and no one is signing for that, and so you have to try lowering it or whatever, and its just like jeez can I play the game yet?!?
I’ll go through your points:
- You’re happy to wait, this is for people who aren’t happy to wait, I’d rather play the game than sit around waiting, thats the whole point
- Well obviously this would need to be against the rules or prevented somehow
- Then there could be a 5 min penalty for abandoning when the group is formed or something, or maybe you would actually drop a key level if you do that. But if you ran the key and it failed, then you wouldn’t drop a level, so there would be more incentive in trying.
I’m sure you’re intelligent and can figure out how something like this could work, but you don’t want to, for whatever reason. You just want to find problems with it, and pretend like the current system is working perfectly fine and no one ever has to wait and waste their time.
I don’t even really see that it’d be that big of a deal to try it for a season. If it doesn’t work, then fine. If it’s absolutely terrible, then revert it earlier. Its not like its going to kill the game, there are worse things that have happened and the game is still alive. The system even already exists in a basic form for heroic dungeons, it just needs expanding on.
Anyway. I just hope someone at Blizzard is thinking about something along these lines, because I am sure there are many people who have left this game for this exact reason - and many of them new players, who I don’t blame for wondering why people would put up with this kind of thing.
If they improve the quality of the filters I’m absolutely fine for this. You list your group, say you need BL, say the required rating to join, and the next however many eligible people to click your group get invited. Everyone knows what they’re signing up for, everyone can look eachother up n down before they start with no consequence, and ultimately everyone who signs up can see what group they’re signing up for.
However, they NEED to fix the filters. The most you can do is filter by rating, would need to at least be able to go by dungeon, as well as highlight things like dispels / bl / br.
I mean the m+ queue threads that were created were a lot more detailed and well thought. The issue that OP wants to fix is just to get insta invited into the groups that he lists.
It is literally a replacement. In the very first description he stated that:
Which in any way you read it means: we will remove the options for players to choose if/who to invite in keys 8 and below, and the game will instead force them into groups with the first players that queued.
TBH my opinion with the m+ finder is that it will just be a failure, not that it should not be implemented. I am 100% for it to be added into the game, just that when people find that it is unusable, to not make a fuss about it.
Well I don’t see that. For me it’s clear it’s not a replacement of the regular queue, just because he is already asking for a “M+ finder” just all the way up to +8. Or would that mean until +8 you can’t form a group but on higher levels you can? Idk would be weird.
Ye, I see where you are coming from but I don’t think he truly wants a full replacement. This would be indeed a very stupid suggestion to make. But I also do see where he is coming from and understand the frustration and why he would want some sort of “M+ finder” but only if it comes as an addition, not a replacement. A replacement would be obviously just bad.
Tbh even if it ends up failing, people will still benefit from it. It might change the mentality of people how and why they invite people.
Mate… are u high? 7s are nearly unclearble in a pug i tried to get my trinket in gb no one clesrs ut in a pug m+ this season is dumb AF unfun and not worth the sanity lose and u wanna make ut worse with a party finder were ever bonobo can que
The way he phrased it means that:
IF you have a key that is up to +8, you will NOT have an option to invite/decline someone that queued in your key, but the “game” will decide to invite the first guys that have the “criteria” (that have been decided from the game).
That means in his scenario, anyone that has a +8 or lower CANNOT make his own group in LFG tool, but instead will have its group made by the game.
I mean, I agree with that assessment, but it is not my job to make assumptions about what he meant, more to understand what he is saying and discuss that (which we agree is stupid).
I mean, I do not think it will change the mentality, maybe it would even make it worse, but that is a very hypothetical scenario.
From my PoV automated queues work well in the following scenarios:
- Trivial content, where the chance of failure is so rare that you can safely put together any group and still have the players have an “ok” experience.
- PvP content, where the “expected” win rate is close to 50%. This is because of the rng part of the queue is in effect and you can just “go another” game, hoping you get the better team.
I do not claim that there is no possible game mode in pve that could work with a solo queue (like a roguelike or something). Just that the current iteration of m+, where all 5 players must work together to achieve a challenging dungeon in a timed limit, is a recipe of disaster. There is no easy way to “vet” the players in the queue, thus would create a place where toxicity would be high, and the chance of failure so high, that it would drive players back to LFG tool.
And again: NOT saying that we should not do this, but i think that this is the way it will devolve if implemented. Still might be a fun experiment (I for sure will not use it, but might be interesting to see the community’s reaction).
That’s the point. Even if it fail, it will most likely change their mentality and bring them back to the LFG tool.
I’ve had around ~200 pug runs this season. I’ve seen everything and the worst runs I had was from No Pressure Discord. I got apparently told that this kind of communities are better than pugs but in my experience it was worse. By A LOT. That’s why I honestly can’t even imagine M+ finder be somehow worse than pugging.
Everytime I discuss this topic with someone, people are always worried about two things: Toxicity and compositions
Toxicity in pugs is already there, it can’t become higher in M+ finder because you could (and most likely will) have more and better regulations. Compositions won’t be that bad either, I am sure. Why would you care if you have a shaman with you who can’t use his utility or warrior having the same issue? They both just smash. Meanwhile I am quite sure, the higher you go in score, the better players you will meet and people will learn about compositions they didn’t think about earlier.
I remember when the season started and nobody mentioned Ret palas at all. It took me 2 days of pugging to realize it’s one of the “best” dps classes, where people barely can fail and it provides pretty much “all” you need. A friend of mine who plays Ret couldn’t get in a single dungeon (without me as a healer or tank), probably because no streamer said how good the damage is. Now he is getting invites left and right
I am pretty sure we will get it. Maybe not this expansion but it will be surely implemented. We got solo queue for arena, solo queue for bg and pretty much only M+ is left since I don’t see this as an option for raids tbh. The community as always will be crying and complaining about X and Y but in the end I am sure it will be a good addition to the game.
I dont care if you have auto as an option.
But you should not be forced to do it and be able to the normal group creating.
What they should do is to fix group creating tool. It is kinda annoying with 5 group search limit, you can accidently reset dungeon on filters by double click refresh and the filter for key levels are awful by “searching” +8 instead but will still show other key levels.
Im fine with a queue system as long as its not mandatory to use.
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Tell me youre entitled without telling me youre entitled.
Still wont solve any problems because it wont spawn tanks and healers out of nowhere.
Another one of these posts. Yish you guys dont stop… You have to wait because there is a lack of healers and tanks. That is why.
So unless you can spawn them from thin air with your new system, you will wait just as long for a group.
What do you propose then ? To get paired up with skilled people and get a nice boost or something?
If there are no tanks/healers in lower keys as you say then what you are suggesting is to be placed by a computer in key levels higher than what you play. Why ? What about the DDs that do have that rio ? Why should you, with lower rio, get placed infront of the quew before the DDs that have the appropriate rio ?
Basically. If there are no healers at your level, there will continue to be no healers at your level. And you will wait the same.
Of course. And the tanks and healers that are in short supply will ABSOLUTELY not want to be paired up with random people to carry. They will want to keep being picky about who they join and where.
So there will be even LESS tanks and healers in your automatic quew, and therefore you will wait even MORE.
You are basically proposing a system which will make you wait the same, or MORE than today. With the extra caviat that you cannot choose your comp. Or you will end up with weird comps like 3 DD paladins (because there are MORE people playing paladins than anything else)… And your success rate will drop.
Therefore, the answer is NO. Absolutely NOT. No automatic quew. Do your own keys or reroll tank/healer.
As long as there are check boxes for who will I get grouped up with in the dungeon finder I am fine with having it. My warrior is a tank who plays with a healer and a hunter. My bases are covered mostly.
I don’t think a dungeon finder will fix anything though. If Blizzard expand the current one to the M+ without any changes to it then that will be a fiasco and I think dead on arrival.
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If you want this as an added option i dont care at all but i wouldnt want to be a part of it and nor would any of the people that i play with.
If we have to pug a key we are super selective about who we take because 9 times out of 10 you end up with someone that has no clue.
If this is an option great good for you, but having played wow for 20 years and having done M+ since it was launched i would not be a part of an automated matchmaking for M+. It would be a dumpster fire!
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This argument has been made probably 1000s of times at this point. Good tanks and healers would just stop using the lfg tool if they tried to force us to take random people.
You aren’t entitled to other people’s time. Offer to pay a tank or healer and I’m sure they would join lol
If you think pug premades for this range of keys use any of these things, lol 
Btw, I’ve never seen a druid or whatever dispel the 2nd boss in nw, it’s always me and this is just one example😃
So, imo, premade or not, it’s the same.
What does it matter that you form group like that when 90% people can’t even use that utility in the moment it is required? 
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Exactly this!