Well first come first serve with filters is what FF currently uses, at least on JP servers, for its harder raid difficulties. It’s far from perfect though I do agree.
There’s a game in development right now that’s about to run into the problem of finding a way to bring new players without established groups into what has up until now been premade group content, so at the very least you’ll likely get your wish. However I’m hopeful that developers having to solve the problem will lead to more understanding of it, and the psychology behind queue systems in PvE games.
The problem starts with players that don’t have the skill to be in the content they do. If M+ had a personal test of skill like proving grounds (tested on a personal level for kicks, mechanics, using damage reduction etc), a M+ SoloQ could be approaching viable. But the average player skill is so low honestly expect a sub 50% timing rate. The toxicity this would cause would be insane.
Proving grounds once gated HC dungeons at “silver” level…which a literal 5 year old could do. It had to be removed because it was “too hard”
Hence why I’m looking forward to the psychology of the problem being explored more. I 100% agree that opening the gates for anyone will, with the current way M+ works starting at what used to be a 12, undoubtedly be a problem.
I think the big selling point of trying something like this is it means that, from a signee’s perspective, if you can see a group in group finder it will accept you, and if a group won’t accept you as you don’t meet the requirements then you simply won’t see it.
It’s not that deep. Everyone knows exactly why meta is taken, why people play DPS more, why low rio isn’t taken, we know why tanks and healers wouldn’t queue, we know that players too scared to apply for groups would use a SoloQ making the skill level even lower.
mean when i make group make sure do care about class some class pump more other rio great tool for this theny 7 take them intro 8 not 100 always a ting some 1 boost or not end up bad yes make bit safer pick players
Its the general difficulty of the lower levels that creates these moronic posts about a quew. Because when difficulty is high, it means completion rates are low. And if completion rates are low, then people will try to get as much of an edge as possible, which in this case is Meta Comp and Rio.
And whoever gets left behind in the Rio department will have trouble finding groups. THAT is the real issue here.
And that is what OP and others are trying to convince us of. They want Blizzard to force groups to take certain people, even though their rio is 200 points lower than the “average rio”. And a quew simply wont solve this. It will simply make completion rates even lower than what they are.
The solution to everyone’s problem is to nerf the general difficulty of M+ across the board. As it was in S3 of DF where this problem was much less diminished. With higher completion rates people were not so picky with Rio and Metas. It only began to be a factor in high keys. As it should be.
Im not so sure, feel like these m+ queue topics have been around since BFA and through all seasons more or less. Its ofc not helping that they ramped up difficulty, but i dont think anything will make ppl stop asking for a queue for m+.
As long as there is quite a gap between the amount of tanks/healers and DPSes, the request for “faster queues” (which is pretty much what this is) will keep popping up.
The solution isn’t simple. The reason isn’t just “difficulty” combined with “meta”. It’s a wild variety of factors:
Healer-tank-dps numbers
The performance of the average Joe signing up, let’s be honest…it’s quite dire at times
Required utilities in dungeons, and quite an imbalance in which specs offer what
Responsibilities of roles
Forgivingness of some responsibilities while other roles are very unforgiving
Yeah, but you get a “Average Joe” tank, healer and 3 DPS and they got (statistically speaking) a 30% chance to time the key. According to recent data. And this is why a Quew will fail. Because if you put “similar skilled people” together then the completion rates will plummet.
So if that is the result of playing with people of similar RIO than you, at appropriate key levels… is a 70% of depleting the key… then it is absolutely normal that people want 2500 RIO to do a +5. And 2500 healers and tanks will absolutely not join a key who’s key holder has 1200 RIO. Because they too don’t want to wipe on the 1st pack.
So yeah, you should give more rewards to Healers and Tanks. By doing the following:
Increasing the DPS they do. By a large margin across the board. So a healer now does 300k (at best) and 200k overall. Turn that to ~ 1M. And tanks too. DPS would be doing 2M around those lines.
Revert the spell quew changes to mobs.
Give healers and tanks impactful benefits. Like currency to give tertiary stats to gear, ect… You could do something more elaborate like 1 special M+ trinket (only usable in M+) where you can dump crests and valor-stones to increase its power. And give healers and tanks double the crests after the dungeon.
And give 3 charges to keys. Or if that is too hard, then I guess removing depletes is better than nothing.
Changes like that.
But none of that will work if they dont revert the key-level squish. That has to absolutely go.
I do agree with giving rewards for less skill. Because the rewards of M+ is not gear, its key progression. Gear just helps out with that process.
And currently in WW, it clearly does not help with the process because people are stuck at some rio which they cannot progress. And the result is what you see now.
And the bottom line is that I dont care if people are rocking full Myth Track gear. Its better even because once you are full Myth Track its just your skill holding you back.
Give people a dedicated choice node for BL/ CR. Remove such option node for classes that already have one of such ability.
Remove stupid dispell affix which strains healer or require specific classes to support OR make it so that self-healing (for this particular case) fulfil the affix.
Forget balance around raiding, and start balancing around M+.
Ensure that Heroic/ M0 is strong enough for people to learn mechanics in these dungeons and not in +2 and beyond.
They went that kind of way before and they were not satisfied.
Thing is that if all specs are equal of terms of utility, only the ones that excel in the particular damage profiles are getting invited. At least if specs have specific utilities, you want a balance of specs and not 3 of a same class.
They balance around both of them. Problem is that in raids it is pretty easy to balance, while in m+ there are way too many factors and its not easy to see what needs buffs/nerfs.
And that is something that is quite impossible.
You ignore the wide disparity in skill between the players and the effect gear has in characters. A new 590ilvl character can learn mechanics in m0. A 610 character won’t feel a thing until a +6.
First it cant hurt PvP because they got their own gear.
And second, well that is a tough situation dont you think? Because to maintain other content intact you have to ruin M+. And to save M+ you have to ruin other content.
So a compromise or a divorce must be reached dont you agree ? One or the other.
But given that Blizzard dosent want to do any of that, then I prefer to hurt other content. For three reasons:
I personally do M+. So I have preference for M+ over other content.
The sheer amount of people that do M+ compared to raids justifies giving it preference.
And most importantly: For YEARS myth track gear was available in 15+ (5+ in today’s level) with out any consequences to “other content” (mainly raiding).