The state of ranged damage from melee has been getting worse over the most recent expansions, and right now it’s out of hand.
Melee should not be able to do ranged damage. Period. Especially considering the amount of mobility and gap closers melee have. In line with this, melee shuld be toned down in ranged damage to only the basics, like one ability so you’re able to pull mobs in range - kinda like warriors are.
So, why the hell are Enhancements able to kill you in range. Why is survival hunter, a freking melee spec, equally viable playing in range or melee, why do Retri have access to high dmg dealing abilities which are ranged (like judgement), etc.? Shouldn’t melee weakness be the lack of ranged damage? Why has the game shifted from this? Am I the only one who noticed this issue? Give me your thoughts, in agreement or disagreement just so I can understand the general idea behind this.
To clarify my frustration: I just did a Skirm with my MM hunter. The enemy team was a Survival hunter, who is supposedly a melee spec, but is more effective in killing in range than MM, because they can deal high amount of damage in range, can LoS you without breaking damage because their pet works similarly to BM, and can pet stun you in range while having access to most abilities MM has.
Enh has been able to do that since MoP, and survival since it’s rework has been a melee/ranged hybrid. It is by design.
Ret can do a lot of burst from range (but it is not 40 yrds), that is true. But they have the worst mobility out of melee specs (or on par with dks, but dks are antimobility to compensate).
Ferals, ww, both dks and warrior specs, all rogue specs. DH has The Hunt, but other then that, needs to be in melee. So that is what, 3 specs out of 13?
IMO, Retri “lack of mobility” doesn’t justify the ability to do high damage in range. In fact, my main being a SP, makes me wonder what are Retri complaining about when they talk about “lack of mobility” when they have freedom and horsie, and can snare in range.
The biggest culprits are the specs I’ve mentioned:
SV hunter needs to be looked at. IMO, its toolkit it’s too strong with the current iteration. If they changed it to melee spec, MAKE it a melee spec. They’re more effective in range than MM, which is the only hunter ranged spec without half of the tools SV has
Enhance biggest issue relies mostly on their burst - that needs to be looked at and changed to melee range
Judgement needs to lose its range as well, or be changed to a low hitting, filler ability and be kept ranged
And DKs, especially Unholy, can also deal a lot of ranged damage.
IDK, it feels like the concept of melee has been losing significance as expansions go by
Yes, I know that. But people do that because the spec design allows them to.
The thing is, Survival hunter is a melee spec. It was specifically changed from ranged to melee. When it happened, it was mostly melee, but with BFA and SL, it has shifted into full hybrid, and equally viably played as melee and ranged, and that to me it’s senseless. If the spec is melee and ranged at the same time, what’s its weakness then? Do you see what I mean?
I think a lot is probably linked to when dispels were put on cooldowns right? They put dispel on cooldown, so melee need more gap closers, which meant casters cast less, etc.
Who knows what expansion you are comparing to, but casters don’t really cast any more either; a lot of damage is frontloaded and instant. Melee all have many gap closers and everyone has multiple CC or utility. Any specs that generally don’t, aren’t then used.
Even damage types, a lot of damage is no longer physical with classes that mainly deal physical such as outlaw being shunned.
Yes, but instants became a necessity due to how offensive and disruptive melee have become over the years. But bear in mind that I don’t agree with this design philosohpy
As for the dispell, etc. I don’t see any co-relation with anything.
I simply can think of anything logical that justifies the existence of high amount of ranged damage some melee specs are able to output
Survival weakness it is, ironically survival and lack of proper burst. Hybrid of melee/ranged is by design (and it didn’t just become that in BfA; in Legion you had Aspect of the eagle aswell, that is the spell which gives them range), and i don’t see a problem with 1 spec being like that. Why should everything be strictly one or another, with no room for experimentation? Survival is lacking in def, because you are supposed to jump in and hit, jump out and kite. It is quite an unique style actually, and the whole spec requires quite a bit of getting used to and skill.
When i see comments like this, i am really having a hard time figuring out why people want MoP back. What you described reached it’s peak in MoP…
I understand that from a gameplay it may be interesting and fun, but looking from the outside it’s just too strong. If the weakness is lack of survability (and yet it has countless more survability than MMs), then they should look into that, and work/rework their burst.
Pet utility should be toned down to how MM pets work, with only basic auto attack, and abilities that allows them to do high ranged damage should be removed, or redesigned.
It’s even worsened by the fact that, like I said, SV is more viable than MM in ranged damage - a spec that exists on that exact same class.
In Legion, yes you had that option available, but it required you to pick it, and it wasn’t nearly as bad as it is now. Now mostly everything is baseline. SV is a literal merge of BM and MM - you have BM utility like pet sun, and kill command. You have traps and ranged damage like MM. And then you have some more as your own as well.
Survival has access to most tools the game has to offer in a way no other spec has
With the weaknesses.
Untanky, few defensive cds (Turtle 3min cd + sac) well sac has a weird standpoint, insane vs firemage and mby ret, but has counterability and and isnt a i will 100% survive button. low burst. And no selfheal/sustain. in combat/fights.
SV pets cant do more than mm ones. Just that you have killcommand which is a focus builder. And your burst is tied to have an active pet casue you fight with it side a side like Rexxar. SV and pet goes together
does it? Not really. turtle + sac. Same defensives. Just that mm can go scatter and has bindingshot baseline. Also MM has a knockback to get off melees. While sv has the petstun but on the other side his kick is melee.
BM is high consistant dmg, MM is high ranged burst specc and SV is good consistant dmg with more utility options.
Trap -> same
Sv with petstun, MM With binding shot.
Petbound ability -> Both
Sv melee slow -> mm range slow
SV has access to steeltrap -> Mm to scatter
SV has melee kick -> mm range kick
Stings -> both
Defensives -> Both the same
Individual “mobility” is that sv has harpoon and disengage and mm has a knockback baseline and disengage.
SV has the advantage of getting undispellable trap which also makes the cc itself worse in terms of Duration but i mean.
It was never fully Melee, people just played it like that, it was designed to be a Melee/ranged hybrid, so the entire arguement is moot at that point.
Survival was it’s weakness, but now a legendary has kinda helped them a lot which is a bit of a shame.
Additionally, this is just as much an offender, Casters have so many instants nowadays ontop of their CC, the entire game needs a rework, it’s not just Melee being an issue.
