I think when u started to play WoW as hunter u do some quests. It was a cancer for range DPS when melee dance in ur model and u can’t cast a single cast.
Well, I still can hardly hardcast with melee on top of my face as SP nowadays, so not that much different tbh
Dlock have more problems to cast than SP.
I hope no one’s ever going to listen to those ideas. Dear Lord.
It was a dumb reply to a dumb suggestion. It wasn’t serious
That would stuff such as “it doesn’t kick from range”. You need to be in melee for specific things, the slow the interrupt, etc.
If you only look at PvP from a DAMAGE perspective yes they are almost as good from range than in melee, but then they can’t do other stuff.
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But they can enter and leave melee rage pretty easily - making it even more effective to CC, and do multiple other stuff, especially since they started to have access to both spear and disengage
It obviously isn’t as overpowered and weaknessless as you picture it because we don’t see many these days.
Actually I even played a Survival at 2.5 twice yesterday and being on a bleed Feral I seriously expected to lose to the spec at that rating since he has FD for my bleeds, bandage for my bleeds on his ally, and high CC, high disruption on my healer but … well… they lost twice and it really didn’t feel that difficult compared to what I thought it would be.
In the end they remain rather weak if you catch them in melee, and if you cast CC to counter their CC on your healer when they go for it, since you can’t be locked… and when they use mobility to go to your healer since they can’t slow you, you may run, and if they use another mobility thing to connect back then they have none for a little bit and you can punish that, that sort of stuff.
It is a good spec, I personally like how it is designed and at the moment it really isn’t op or anything.
I’m not saying it’s OP. But its toolkit is too strong, and I just can’t agree with it being able to output so much ranged damage because it’s a melee spec
So if it not overpowered, how it too strong ?
It isn’t a pure melee spec, it’s a hybrid spec. Just like some DPS specs can heal without being healers. They are hybrids.
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they are one of the underperforming specs and one of the hardest specs right now i dont get why you think they need to be looked at. They literally only really work in 2s with holypriest but then you are better off with a bm anyway.
With the current class designs with many defensives cds and gap closers it doesnt really matter how much range melee abilities have since you cant really kite them anyway 
no burst and die very easily, pets also die very easily.
thats the spec design of shadow though.
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“Kite the retri”
Retris be like 
:
So explain to me how do you counter SV with a ranged spec. I’m curious because like with mostly other melee, you have to keep range as a form of counter to their damage. Against SV, it doesn’t matter.
Also, SV is hardly underperforming. Stop saying bs. Other melee simply are better and burstier. My issue with SV relies mostly on the fact that they can put out way too much damage in range and it’s completely senseless. Pet stun shoulnd’t be a thing - they should have a baseline melee stun. Disengage should not exist in SV either (like it didn’t when they were changed to melee) since they have harpoon.
So by your own words, they’re underperforming when compared to other melees, and if we compare them to the more meta casters/ranged, they’re also underperforming 
It’s only senseless, because you can’t accept they are a hybrid melee ranged, when you learn to accept that, it makes plenty sense.
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There’s a difference between underperforming and underrepresentation. SV is the latter because in no way it performs badly
I don’t think this design is intended, they just added some stuff over the years to make it ‘’ work’’ but I don’ t think we can say it’s his design.
Imo they make it atleast ‘’ okay’’ just because priest got only 1 dps spec otherwise it would probably be unplayable like demonology warlock.
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I don’t try to make it look bad, definitely one of the better specc. Most rets that comments are commenting on the exarrigation of rets being godlike and far the best specc in the game. Because that is not true.
Ret needs a healthier design. Just like all other classes.
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Yes for sure, tbh every class need a fresh and better design but I don’t think we are going to get anything with the actual blizzard’s mindset :s
Not at all. If anything, it will get worse with even more modifiers and dull/broken borrowed powers.
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Im glad that melee have to melee. All have spammable snare anyway.