IRL the people who fulfill important jobs that fewer people are willing/able to do, are more likely to be paid more.
WoW has not quite done that enough for a tank or healer, especially a healer.
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The amount of tanks in the game, or classes that can tank is not the problem.
Other players are the problem.
Tanking for pugs is an unforgiving job and it doesn’t take many runs with toxic DPS’ers before they decide to stop doing randoms and only tank for friends and guildies instead.
3 Likes
Even with the simplification of affixes and all the other QoL improvements with things like timers and a clear check m+ still feel like dirty content and I would rather just not bother. M+ mode just doesnt feel like dungeons used too before we had the m+ system, its a heavily gamified version of dungeons that are just unfun
I much prefer the old school dungeon and wish they would scale that up in difficulty by adding mob abilities, scaling numbers, adding abilities beyond certain difficulty checkpoints without all these bells and whistles m+ tries to add to it
Glad we have delves now, no real reason to look back at m+ until it cuts out the CBT design
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Pretty much this yeah. I started tanking some mythics, came prepared, downloaded the add-on to see which route to take. And the dps completly f up all the time.
How about we switch the question around :
- To play a tank, first you need to like to play at melee range. Melee is chaotic, melee specs are all about instant cast abilities that you have to press on the move. Casters are more static.
From Raider IO data, I can see that across all levels DD melee/caster are split 50/50. So, by doing a simple extrapolation only 50% of people will like tanking mechanically to begin with. The other 50% prefer to be in Narnia casting.
- Lets Uno-Reverse the question. Why do people want to play DD (specifically melee DD) and sit all day in quews?
One answer might be big D numbers. So one solution is to treat a tank more like a DD. So big D numbers. Like big Shield Slams and Revenges… Such that they are on par DPS wise to the DDs.
The only reason tanks do sub-par DPS is to avoid 5 tank parties. To solve that : the hard code way. Only 1 person with a tank spec can get in the instance. The other one gets TPd out. OR, the soft way. Resources to do that damage depend on being hit or not and/or based on the use of defensive abilities. The other 4 tanks wont do squat since they are not being hit by mobs.
And FYI : I haven’t forgotten the 50% of caster DDs that like to be in Narnia. For them, same exact concept but for healers.
As for the “responsability” argument i think its BS.
DDs think they have less responsability. But they actually have as much responsability as the tanks and healers. Believing that they dont causes depleats and they ALL run back here complaining M+ is too hard.
So for me this argument is false.
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Bring back old M0/+ scaling and i maybe will try again. Allthough for now i can not even get aggro in a follower dungeon.
I am not sure this is very relevant. I also play both melee and ranged.
I think as dps i can just follow. That doesn’t mean as dps i do not need to interrupt when we are in a pull. But there’s a lot of responsibility taken away.
Messing with trash clear % is not a soultion it will just bring more problems (long story short more routes to learn)
Tanking in general has several problems:
- You have to learn routes, pulls and the boundaries of what can you endure and what not, and most players don’t want to bother with this.
- You are the main scapegoat when anything goes south, along with the healer. DPS didn’t interrupt or popped defensives to survive? Yep, your fault, obviously.
- Class imbalance/difference and FOMO/Metaslaving. Oh you want to play X spec ? Well good luck getting invited…
- The new Mythic scaling is bad, you are thrown right into a +10 environment and have little to no room to make mistakes, and we all know how quick randoms leave when the tank dies.
Be more welcoming to tanks. And for the love of [insert your precious one], help the tanks by interrupting, stunning, etc… The incoming damage can be very high, but most of the time only because the group fails to handle interruptable stuff.
And then you have those andies who pop all their cooldowns and go all out while the tank isn’t even done collecting the mobs. Making it just all 100x more frustrating than it could have been.
So long as tanks have to memorize routes and track percentages it’s going to be an extra duty they have to perform, and another something to possibly fail at and get yelled at by teammates. But that won’t change without fundamental changes to m+.
Just make tanks more fun to play, get rid of those annoying short duration short cd defensive abilities you have to spam at 90 APM, declunk and debloat rotations so people can focus more on tanking than fighting keyboard.
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Blizzard should add at least 1 tank spec for a class with ranged DPS.
I know for a fact I would tank on main in M+ if I could dps as ranged in raids.
Classes without tanking specs should be prioritized in receiving a tanking spec
Yes. Every party member in M+ is responsible for key success. Not meeting the requiremwnts set by the instance is more visible on tanks and healers only because there is 1 of each in a party.
Dont take the numbers so literally. What matters is if there was a clear majority. Like 80% melee 20% casters. In that alternate universe you would have only melee alts. And in that universe it tells me that “most” people like to play melee.
But its not the case. You are just as likely to like melee as caster. So technically, you are as likely to roll tank or healer. Simple.
You are one of those that lives in a delusion. That is not the case. DDs should NOT just follow. They have a ton of stuff to do other than kick things.
I mean, i am not going to pull for the tank, if you suggest that.
I like to tank. Just dont like the dungeons we have for m+
2 Likes
No. But when should you use the Cap Totem ? Should you be watching the Tank CDs and use it when he is in danger, or just randomly when you feel like it ?
Should you use your kick to make casters move to the pack ? Or just kick some random mob ?
Should you position yourself to optimize DPS predicting the next pull ? Or waste time walking back and fourth ?
Should you position yourself to not bother other team-members during mechanics ? Or should you stand pixel to pixel next to the healer and make sure a swirlie lands right next to him ?
Are you tracking the CDs of your party, in particular Tank and Healer CDs ?
Those are the questions I am referring to. And if you answer YES then you are a DD that does what he is supposed to do. And as you can see, there is much more to DDing than big D numbers.
Positioning in particular is super important. Tank positions mobs. But you have to possession yourself appropriately as well.
And all of this while executing your DD rotation as perfectly as possible.
Yes, that is all for everybody. But the tank has the responsibility to route and group up pulls and position at first. I do not think i am delusional on that.
If they want to make tanking more attractive to me they’ll slow it down A LOT. Cut the number of actions per minute in half. I’m not playing it in its current state.
Playing a bear feels like playing a rogue on steroids. Which is saying something, because rogues are technically also on steroids xD
2 Likes
Give Tanks and Heals garantie loot in M+ so you will find enough Tanks.
I think that better approach would be to remove timer, so tanks can take as much time as necessary for comfortable pulls.
Altough I think that on low keys it’s more about healer shortage?
I, personally, think that Blizzard should make DPS role less comfortable. Right now you can just /follow tank, autoattack things, die on every boss and complete key. Being carried as tank or healer is much less likely.
One thing that they should do is to make mechanics that punish DPS players, not healers. Every time DPS player fails mechanics, it’s up to healer to recover the situation. Instead of losing HP, DPS should get damage debuff, for example, so he will be below healer in the meters. Or just instant death, do healer wouldn’t care about this situation at all.