Malefic Cores on Echos was lazy and bad

Community General Discussion
61

thank you kind human being.

I am fully aware, and so are probably all people in this topic, that you dont need bis essences / traits / corruption / cloak lvls etc to play / enjoy the game.

And yes, i can tank 15s on my 460ish alt warr without any TD corruption.

This is totally possible, but the gap between players and their gear is so huge now, that people will not even bother:

  • to return
  • try out BFA / play it till SL launches
  • or makes people play alts.

I am all for the: you want it, you earn it approach.
I dont want free gear and all that jazz.

But if i want to play an alt, or if i would wanna return (still playing) i would be way more motivated if i know:

If i come back now, i have a few days of leveling to do, and 4 friends can help me gear up to 450ish ilvl.

I dont wanna read up / figure out when i want to return, i need to grind a currence to spend on 3 necessary gameplay systems to be able to perform well and ā€œenjoy the gameā€ (which, as i did the math for, is a huge amount of echoes)

That overall, is bad game design

And 15k echoes in a week? That is pushing it and you did spend a lot of time in the game then. Or you ran many horrifics.

edited: genderneutral thank you, and typos. To much drama already about wow players and stuff.

1 Like
62

I definitely see the power difference between my pala and my shaman. But a returning player is going to spend the time on his main and is going to get a lot of echoes on it too :slight_smile: I know i runned like 6 visions that week and did a fair amount of pretty high M+ (around +20), so that is not for returning players.

Realistically looking, a new player can be very close in power in 1-1.5 months of play. And i am fine with that difference, i guess. 6 months longer playing should give somewhere an advantage.

I know i am playing just for fun. I know i will never be nr1, allthoug being somewhat competitive and try to get the best out of my char. Is it realistic a new player now should aim for nr 1 and the best of the best gear? Letā€™s say you get your char on 80%. That char is better geared than world first Mythic raiders back then. That char can do the highest content in the game, including pretty high M+ :slight_smile:

63

But thats the problem and point, too grindy for new players and veteran players alts who would like to play them.How you still cant see it is beyond me.

64

I do see how difficult it is, but you question this to someone who just started himself an alt last week. And i am pretty happy with the new catch up options :slight_smile:

65

This expansion havenā€™t been alt friendly at all. The intended way is to play with your main character. You need to prioritize Echo spending now, because Echoes are somewhat limited and there are a lot of things to buy with them now.

You have baseline 50 corruption resist on your rank 15 cloak and you can safely play with up to 39, that leaves quite a lot of room for corruptions. Donā€™t bother spending echoes on catchup upgrades if you donā€™t have any corruption equipped, it makes no sense. Catch up on resistance is propably the lowest on priority list, as you naturally gain +6 each week anyway.

So if you ding level 120 your prio on echo spending would be:
-rank 3 essences
-corruptions on good gear bits
-corruption resist if you have lots of corruption and run into problems

66

Malefi core = more corruption resitance = more CR more corruption = more power.
Gear = power.

just becouse there is extra steps doesnt make it any different.

67

Devilā€™s advocateā€¦

  1. The community has been moaning about arbitrary timegating for ages
  2. Blizz have implemented a thing that we can grind as much or as little of as we like, and made it the currency for all the important endgame things.

ā€¦I think we got what we asked for. We asked for the option to put in as much work as we wanted and get a proportional reward, and thatā€™s what has been delivered.

Do think people need to be clear as to exactly why this isnā€™t what they wanted, because weā€™re sending very mixed messages right now.

68

The difference is exactly because there are extra steps. No one wanted extra steps.

69

This change might be okay, but all in all itā€™s still frustrating.
It is really fun to play a chara with a lot of corruptions, but the way to get there is so long and boring.
Iā€™ve done countless visions, assaults, and emissary quests and at this point I donā€™t have the motivation to go through all this stuff again with a new chara, or an alt I havenā€™t played for 2 months.

70

This corruption and essences fiasco is 100% community fault !

Community : Blizz give us something that we can work toward

Care what you wish for you might get it !
Hopefully Devā€™s learned lesson and will never again listen to so called " community feedback "

71

And thats important, yes, till now we had it bad, cathup was basicly non existent and all u had to do was log in once per week, do your weekly, vision +nzoth and you could log out till next week.

Now you can literaly spam m+/arena/bg and u will always get a little bit to your power boost progress. So basicly, everything you do boost you, indirectly, so you just have to play the game and put in efort.

Yet people are still mad because they want to play game with their alts but as soon as they actualy have to play game to become viable its bad designā€¦

72

Agreed, we got a catch up mechanic to the cloak of which we asked for.

And even already 1 week after they went all like: Nah, you aint getting a catch up mechanic for the cloak after rank 15.

But the thing is, the amount of echoes needed for everything you want to do is getting out of hand.
Increasing echoes droprate was a good move, but to increase prices of essences along with it, when you also need 3-15k for your corruptions is a bad move.

Its not the problem with not getting what we want or ask for.
But there has been a lot of feedback on changing / updating the gameplay systems like echoes / cloak upgrades.

A lot of feedback has been provided about the cloak catch up that we got, and i think almost everyone thinks that getting malefic cores till you ran out of catching up from Horrifics is the better answer.

Or adding malefic cores to assault rewards or buy them with coalscing visions instead or whatever.

This is a returning topic in every feedback post and used by the people who want to tell us we are wrong.

But we do want to play the game, we just dont want to certain types of content just to be viable.
Being willing and able to play, doesnt mean you have to play all the content there is.

And just accept it.

EXAMPLE:
If i just want to play M+ or raid, i want to be able to do so.
But before i can do the above i have to:

  • Do all my world quests / emissaries on a daily basis
  • Play arena
  • Do all Nzoth assaults, even tho i dislike them with a passion

I need to do all of the other means of content, i wish not to play before i can play the content i want to play.
Drastically reducing the amount of time i can dedicate to said desired content.
END OF EXAMPLE

Nobody ever had an issue with playing the game, but especially BFA Is the king in forcing you into content you dont want to run to even be able to run your desired content.

That is the underlaying issue, not the fact we dont want to work for our ā€˜ā€˜progressā€™ā€™

1 Like
73

Iā€™m gonna start off by saying that this particular change did not affect me personally in any way - the farthest behind any of the 3 chars I keep up to date has been is 6 res which I got almost solely through tanking/dpsing nā€™zoth for friends who didnā€™t have curve yet because #curveornoinv.

I strongly believe that the changes were coming regardless of community feedback. Its a catch up mechanic to get your alts or returning players on par with minimum requirements. Given the impact that corruptions have on your characterā€™s performance it was pretty clear that getting neck levels wasnā€™t gonna cut it.

Something very key here is that some classes feel dysfunctional without corruptions by default and all feel dysfunctional by comparison and this is before taking azerite traits and essences into account. Another key thing is that unless you are a returning player, youā€™re likely to be tired of daily emissaries at this point, which is where the effort to reward factor comes into play. The content that gives the biggest rewards in terms of catch up (which is what you are funneled into as a new player or an alt) is the most trivial content.
Emissary quests, Assaults (which if youā€™re doing them as efficiently as possible is basically another emissary quest), Warfronts and Horrific Visions (bonus for rewards not scaling with masks on those) all require less time and effort and award as much as or more than for example mythic + dungeons.

So to sum it up - the most rewarding content is the most trivial content and on top of that it is also time gated - you canā€™t squeeze in more than 4-5 visions per week and you canā€™t get more than 1 emissary per day. On top of that the ā€œdifficultā€ and repeatable content is unrewarding by comparison and significantly more time consuming. This, combined with the fact that they implemented 4 catch up mechanics (lowered requirements on essences, corruptions on the vendor, cloak rank catch up and cloak resistance catch up) nicely timed 1-2 months apart for things which should have been there since the start of the patch screams bad game design.

I canā€™t speak for others but I wouldnā€™t define soloing daily quests and visions as playing an MMORPG.

74

Do you guys remember when echoes was just for essences? And we where told it was just for essences?

ā€¦ And i got every single bloody one on all 12 of my chars ā€¦?

:rage:

REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

75

Do you remember you could just log on,

Enter group finder or grab some guildies and run a dungeon or raid?
Without having to play 7 hours extra to just be able to do the above?

76

on main i can do just that.
im 477 ilvl, near bis everything
can log and do whatever content i wish or harass some ppl in bgs

however, getting there took a lot of grinding of menial content
i lost count of how many visions i did for my sockets
also lost count how many world quests

now its like next neck level is 150k ap away. So i donā€™t even bother with islands, emissaries and whatnot. Because why should i? To get 50 more dps when im doing 100k? Nah, ill pass. Visions? Eh, no upgrades left, even if a 470 drops.

now if you look on the gear, here are sources where it came from:
raid 5
m+ cache 2
titan residue vendor 1
visions 4
boe 1

Itā€™s from wide variety of content. Back in the day it would be all from raid. Raid or nothing. Non-raid gear was dogpoo.

77

On a main, yeah you can.

But if you wanna play an alt in any scenario, you are first met with the awful grind of echoes / cloak ranks / etc etc etc before you can even set foot inside the content you wanna do.

Even for Arena you are in need of certain raid trinkets because they are so OP.

78

raiding for pvp-suitable trinkets has been there since god knows how long. Itā€™s there to stay.

However the grind is really harsh, thatā€™s true. Especially for arena, i donā€™t see a reason to queue with anything less than 470 ilvl with good corruptions. The power difference is so much that iā€™m basically a free win to the enemy team.

I que arena on main, see 280k hp enemy im like, nice I won. Yea before even the match begins. I always won such matches.

79

2000 Echo for a core is not that horribleā€¦ :thinking:
Better than nothing
Now only if the books and pages would be buyableā€¦ runing the visions for the Nth time with alt for those just slowly gnaws away your sanityā€¦ :octopus:

80

But this applies to everyone, pvper pvers, RPersā€¦ They all hate chores the same.

But the point with EON is, u can do literaly any content and get them, thats the point, no matter if u do pvp pve or world quests with passion, u can get echoes and be viableā€¦