There are some obvious benefits to a queue system over manual grouping as far as getting people into the content.
First and foremost it’s faster. And for a game mode where players run millions of dungeons each week, saving mere seconds is huge by itself. Add a teleport-to-dungeon function in on top of that and you’ll see popularity explode like when Blizzard introduced queueing for Dungeons in WotLK.
Even the most bare-bone queue system will churn out groups way faster and more consistently than the manual process of Looking for Group can. WoW has ample history to back that up.
As a result the amount of runs per week will go up, because more groups will get formed in the same period of time.
An automated queue system is also more fair when making groups, because that’s one thing players are not – fair.
I think this point was made earlier in the discussion, but if you’re a tank who usually runs +12 keys and you decide to apply for a +2 key, then you’re going to get invited, even if lots of other tanks have already been applying for that group for a while and been searching for any group even longer. Players simply give privilege to the best. That skews the group-making experience wildly, where top players who are quick to blast through the keys early in the Season and get a high score and item level can enjoy easier access to groups for the rest of the Season, whereas people who are slower or starting out later in the Season are going to constantly struggle to get invited into groups, because players will always err toward picking the best applicants.
An automated queue system can be a lot more fair in terms of putting groups together based on the time someone has been in the queue, and sorting group compositions and the quality of players to be more evenly distributed across all groups.
Kyrasis is probably the best m+ BDK onetrick in the world and he doesnt even come close to the key levels that Yoda, Kira and Naowh play.
Meta matters at such a level.
BDK sucks this seasons. Every single statistic proves that.
I don’t know why people get this cringe attachment like, if you say a class sucks you are attacking them. “i am my class/spec and you are attacking me”
I gave my idea for how something like that can essentially be avoided by having simple checks and balances built into the system:
And those requirements can be tightened if necessary, and I’m sure Blizzard are a lot smarter than I am, so they can probably solve this tiny problem even more elegantly than I can.
Besides, how can you tell with Looking for Group? Everyone who applies to your group is essentially a stranger, and how do you know if they’re capable of playing properly? Well you look at their item level, their score, their history, and so on. And that’s essentially the same stuff a queue system can look at. What you’re doing when you form a group is data analysis on a level that really doesn’t require much human evaluation. You are after all judging players purely based on numbers, you’re not asking the applicants to show their rotation on a target dummy in Orgrimmar. So the manner by which you vet players is not very hard to program a queue system to do as well, if that was a design goal.
And graliboar that is the current highest rated bdk atm has done dungeons one level lower than yoda.
The meta dhs have done dungeons at the range of 19-20, and the highest level bdks have done 18-19s. The difference is nowhere near as big as it used to be.
Its not. You dont have the tank and healer capacities to get a “fast” queue.
As if that is different in any other field. Work, sport, hobbies. Its the same everywhere.
Yeah…quite the contradiction. An automated system with a queue that operates according to “first come first serve” and “BL / CR / any Dispell > no utility”.
Doesnt make any sense, does it?
Problem with a queue is that while you can have high standards to form your group, blizzard cannot.
Blizzard has this dilemma:
We make the queue system too strict: People complain that we waste their time and it is too grindy to play dungeons, etc. Probably tanks and healers will also not like the grind and spam.
We make the queue system too loose: People enter dungeons but because the requirements are too loose, you have people that are nowhere near the level needed for the dungeon. Groups fall apart, and people complain again.
LFG works at the moment because people have agency over the groups. If you take that agency away, everyone is gonna complain and blame blizzard for everything wrong.
I am all up for a queue system that is an addition and won’t impact me. But that is mainly because it will just be funny to see it crash and burn and everyone complain about it being unplayable.
I agree, but there are many fotm “noname” vdh players that easily time the same keys as Graliboar or Kyrasis.
I believe we are heading in the right direction. Maybe a bit more attention to m+ spec balance. Dragonflight S1 was really well balanced, as an example.
That’s not a problem, because you still retain the ability to form your own groups through LFG.
That’s how it is for any game really, because it works.
I can join the automated queue for Quick Play in Overwatch and have the system put together the group I play with, or I can put together my own group and then join Quick Play and play with that group.
Choice is king.
A tank who queues for an activity in WoW that sees high constant popularity and participation has close to zero queue time. And a +10 Mythic Dungeon sees constant activity in WoW, because everyone wants to score their weekly Vault item.
So you’d save 26 seconds.
But it’s not really the 26 seconds you save. It’s how many seconds the game saves in the process of players running 1.5 million Mythic Dungeons in a week. The time saved is going to amount to more Dungeons being run. That’s why popularity has always gone up for any activity that Blizzard have added a queue system for. It just makes running the content faster and more efficient.
Generally start of seasons are more diverse, and they become more “metafied” when the RWF has stopped, and the people pushing are settling on their picks.
At the moment all those nameless dhs that you see, are just those that decided to push their team and follow the meta. They might as well have played dks and reached a similar level.
Yeah, as I told you I am all up for it, to see it crash and burn.
Problem is that blizzard cannot do that. They cannot release a feature if they know that it will fail at the goals they set. Because as much as I can sit and laugh at complains and drama, those are paying blizz’s paying customers that they want to maintain a level of quality for them.
Newsflash, but Blizzard aren’t breaking new ground by adding an automated queue function to a replayable PvE game mode.
That’s a pretty standard functionality in just about any game that fulfills the above description.
Fortnite? Has it.
Call of Duty? Has it.
League of Legends? Has it.
StarCraft II? Has it.
Overwatch 2? Has it.
Marvel Rivals? Has it.
DOTA 2? Has it.
EA Sports FC 25? Has it.
World of Warcraft? It’s freaking everywhere in the game already!
What game are you playing that has an automated queue system that has caused the entire building to come crashing down?!
I would say Heroic Raids should not have matchmaking, because they do require clear assignments. But M+ does not really require coordination, and is more comparable to Strikes in Destiny 1, so there I think it’s sensible
The reason is that most people play M+ already like soloqueue with the difference that they try to guess other people’s MMR and it’s manual instead of automatic. So automating it should be a non-issue, if Blizzard has systems to measure people’s MMR.
In heroic raids the difference is that someone has to lead. It’s a bit nuanced, so in Raids it wouldn’t make sense and it would come crashing down.
I don’t think Blizzard looks at the raid participation these days and considers that a great success relative to the development time they spend on making the raids. And if a queue system could increase the popularity, then I don’t think player assignments and coordination will be a holy cow they’re not ready to slaughter at some point.
But that’s another discussion for another time.
But yeah, Mythic+ Dungeons are pretty ideal for it.
All the instances where mmr/matchmaking has been implemented in games has been in a pvp mode, where the win rate is 50% assuming equal skill.
That is the basis of how early elo/mmr was calculated. It assumes that player skill will be the deciding factor, and that each team has an equal chance to win, assuming same “elo”. And with that, you lose/win mmr depending on the actual results vs expected results depending on your mmr.
I think you understand how that falls apart in a pve game mode, where success chance is NOT constant, but dependent on the key level you are doing. It makes the application of regular mmr impossible and requires the creation of a “new” mmr system that is specific to the game mode.
That’s why I said that it is not something done easily. There has been no game that has implemented a mmr system in a game mode similar to m+.
Yeah about that: most high key players arent guessing. At some point score = skill. the 3,4k fotm reroller is clearly more skilled than the 3k onetrick.
Thanks, that’s actually an argument for matchmaking in M+
But it still would have to calculate some form of MMR and that implementation has many questions. For example should it include average dps/damage taken per second/etc. per run? Else the danger is that ppl go too fast into too hard content.
At the end, when my superb brain flashes a splendid montage for my 進撃の目 (left eye) and 白眼 (right eye) to see it will filter out those painful 26 seconds.
It will just show me all the hundreds of hours of fun I had in the keys.
We timed that ToP +10 my VDH wasted 26 seconds getting into. It was worth all 26 seconds and more. I loved it.
