I have no problem with the max ilvl being a bit lower than HC raids. Raiding felt pointless really fast, and in the last raid noone really wanted to kill anything except Raden for weapon/trinkets after the first clear.
At least with just 3 ilvl difference it’s still interesting to run M+ dungeons for the right stat combo on items.
But they should then revert the loot from the dungeon chest like it is now.
Also the ilvl from chest loot should be adjusted. Make it max ilvl from +12/13 onwards with +15 giving the highest weekly loot.
Otherwise it will be very frustrating to do content harder than hc raid for lower and less loot.
They are turning M+ into a weekly. You will do it for a weekly mythic item and that’s it. Those that do it for competitive or fun reasons will do it but they want gearing to be sparse and that’s best when on a weekly cooldown.
So like BFA is what you are saying.
In BfA you could gear in M+ only - and for the most part it had titanforging. In Shadowlands they are making it harder for split runs to trade gear but to also de-incentivize gearing via mass running of keys. They moved grind into weekly caps (like Renown) and now M+ is also a more weekly oriented thing. You won’t fall behind if you won’t grind M+ that’s their take on it I would assume.
This makes sense that you think as you are doing m+ and not raiding.
So obv you want your content to be the best way to gear.
It is 3ilvls dude you will survive til later on when you have those mythic equivalent gear.
Being spamable content it should not have had higher ilvl then heroic raid gear that you can do 1 time a week. Never mind that normal is in a very odd spot in why it even exists at this point.
1 Like
If you grind mythic + you will have the option of 3 items in the weekly chest instead of a person who does weekly with 1.
So you are more insentiviced to spam mythic + in shadowlands then you are in BFA.
People wanted titanforging gone this is part of the price do not complain this was very easy to understand would happen.
If you ever complained about titanforging on these webpages you have brought this on yourself.
Renown does not look like you have to farm very much at all actually.
People did not like Azerite farming and weekly caps makes it so people will not farm to death, again this was things People Wanted shadowlands to have.
it is not blizzards fault that people can not think of the consequences.
I think it was already enough to nerf the drop rate so that the loot is not dropping willy nilly. That could be understand…yet why this ilevel nerf as well? It pretty much relegates the m+ to a weekly chore even at the start of the season.
1 Like
Only a weekly limit while before during week one of unlocked M+ could give you HC or better ilvl gear. First XForges, then corruption. And some people did run a lot of M+ to get corruption, to get XForges, to get specific items from specific dungeons, often with an XForge. That could burn out.
And getting higher ilvl then heroic is not good for raiding.
It already devalues normal raids to be worthless as it is in current state.
It devalues pvp gearing.
Being spamable it really is not good for the game for it to give too much reward in the end of dungeon thing.
The weekly limit is 10 mythic + for the 3rd item in the vault. That is far more then what a bunch of people are doing in bfa.
At that point you are doing it for fun like in bfa.
People still ran a lot of dungeons even when they could not get any upgrade from dungeons in season 4 of bfa.
There will still be items that you will want to go in to mythic raiding with over heroic gear imo.
Removing corruption and titanforging is what people asked for.
People complained on the forums here all the time about that 1 person who got an awsome item or that rare person who got close to mythic gear in lfr, blizzard listened this you should have known and prepped for a LONG time now you could know about this being a thing before the patch we are on right now.
2 Likes
What?
Most guilds around seemed to have no interest in mythic raiding, basicly stopping at heroic clear. Maybe I just saw this because I personally won’t bother going past heroic and therefore only looked at guilds not interested in mythic, and in your case, you saw the mythic chasers because you’ve been looking for mythic raids?
So no, heroic raids were far from pointless. No idea where you got that idea from. It’s a scaleable difficulty, hence very practical for those of us who are done with set teams(of an exact number) and just wanna play with whoever is available without using a bench or backups.
or, the lack of scaling of myth raiding is the roadblock, most guild don’t have a stable 20ppl roster to do a reasonable progress on it.
It is. This is the main reason I won’t bother. As I said I can’t bother with sitouts, backups and almost exact compositions anymore.
M+15 is farmable and is easier than heroic raids (generally, obviously depends on affixes). Makes sense the gear would be worse save for the weekly chest.
2 Likes
lul? +15 is not easier than heroic until you massively overgear it.
heroic is just mechanics and it’s tuned quite soft, if you do mechanics correctly, you can get away with a kill even with 2-3 dead people.
2 Likes
I think it is totally different content that is not comparable. Especially Nyalotha was a very gimmick raid. The only fun boss was Maut. There was no healing challange at all outside of that boss. Do the gimmick right and the boss dies. a 4 button-raid.
At least M+ gives challenges with less gimmicks. Need way more coordination and usage of utility.
1 Like
I personally think it’s a shame that m+ is essentially being nerfed. I thought it was great that Blizzard started moving towards a more ‘‘flexible’’ end game - 5 people are much easier to coordinate than 20.
A slightly erratic schedule, with frequent late nights at work, social events popping up in the evening, I find myself unable to commit to raid times (or end up being kicked from the team very quickly after a few late nights at work). M+ allows me to progress whenever i find the time, be it saturday morning, sunday evening, tuesday evening etc etc…
2 Likes
The nerf is stupid. They should have nerfed the droprate like they have done with Visions. First Dungeonloot is above hc, 2nd is hc, 3rd is below. Thats how you fix it without destroying it by forcing people to raid.
I mean its a shame that much more harder content now offers lower ilvl gear. +15s are usually a way harder than hc raid - outside of corruptions. Just look at how many people have cleard ep hc in s3 & how many have ksm as an archievement.
Like i said i hope they reduce the spamability of m+ but dont destroy it completely.
1 Like
Blizzard is doing this specifically to push forward with their stupid personal loot agenda and preventing top players from trading loot between eachother.
Because currently what players would do is to farm mythic+ 12-15 to obtain 460/465 pieces for pretty much any slot, therefore being able to freely trade any item that dropped in Heroic Nyalotha.
Now that the top item in mythic+ end of dungeon chest is BELOW any heroic raid items, it means that you won’t be able to trade raid drops at all. At least in the early stages of the raid being available. Another change uncalled for.
It’s exactly for this reason why the top ilvl is 3 ilvl’s below HC. 3 ilvl’s is nothing, it’s almost no difference in power. They could’ve easily made top m+ reward equal to HC. But that would enable trading and this is what they really do not want.
Stop being delusional in thinking M+ is side content.
If anything, for alot of people, raiding is the side content. They can do m+ all day every day and raid is just a2 times a week. 
2 Likes
Thats not true.
First of all why do they care about the trading? The top players who do that will still clear the content in a few weeks.
Secondly is 3 ilvl enough to fail a key. 3 ilvl in sl will be probably like 5 ilvl in bfa with scaling. If i have 5 more ilvl i most likly have around ~20k more hp and probably survive some boss mechanics with 2% hp i wouldnt survive. So 3 ilvl can be a lot.