Me providing feedback about profession system overhaul, as a returning player

Community General Discussion
1

Hi!

I’ve looked over guides, threads I could find, and even checked out the video by signsofkelani on youtube. I haven’t done anything in particular in retail for years, and I essentially skipped dragonflight. I’ve sloowly been getting back into retail ever since tww started, but I’ve given up on trying to get into the professions.

Because it’s a desired thing to have for pugs, as well as for guild groups, it means it counts as a demerit to not have it, which means the chance to get invited is reduced because of it, and as far as pugs are concerned where everyone is a stranger then the risk of people leaving after noticing it is therefore increased even if I make the group myself.

I looked up what I could about crafting orders, and its meaningless complexity, but objectively speaking then it can be summarized as being exactly the same as the original BoE equipment that people used to craft. The only difference lies in the details, like adding customization options for stats and what appears to be some kind of meta gem-esque bonus that can be added to it. However even the part about increasing the ilvl isn’t something new, and has been part of the original profession system even going as far back as vanilla, but the more recognizable example would probably be the TBC crafted weapons although they were strictly BoP in TBC. At least I think they were BoP in TBC, I didn’t play the Classic re-release so I’m basing it on very old memories.

The point is that the end result is exactly the same. You end up either crafting an item which is then used by someone else, or you buy the crafted equipment from someone else regardless. Providing the mats and paying commissions was a thing even in vanilla.
There is no meaningful difference from those old BoE crafts, at all.

The issue lies in that artificial complexity which is both convoluted as well as unintuitive, especially from the perspective of a new/returning player. I say that from my personal experience, so this is not a place for anyone else to say “pfft, bruh, it ez bro, yu do tis yu do tat, ez”.

This post is purely for the sake of me providing feedback, and will likely be the reason why I give up on the game again.

Also, I’ve got pretty severe motion sickness, and that dragonflying stuff makes me nauseated every time. The fact that I had to use it throughout the entire campaign, forced me to use hangover medication just to play. The accessibility options made a kind of difference, but going from 100% nauseated to 90% nauseated figuratively speaking, is not really something that makes it accessible. I’m not going to try the next expansion no matter what, if that will be the case for that as well. And again, this is not the place for people to claim it works and that I’m the problem. It’s simply fact that it’s what it was like for me.

1 Like
2

Yes the crafting system is overly complex. The main thing now is that it burns up gold while you level it. Alchemy has a gamble element built into it just to learn recipes. There are now weekly quests to grind out talent points. The tooltips within the game are terrible, and are ambiguous in the details, but you can re-talent points in the next patch.

I know a few who love the system. I know a lot more (myself inc) who see is as nothing more than a con to push token purchases. Since Blizzard is all about stats and interaction within the game, I absolutely refuse to have anything to do with the crafting side of the game.

I have had many crafts made by others though, even though that sounds hypocritical. If it ever turns out that no one is interested enough to craft the item I want, or it becomes a skill so rare that they charge exorbitant amounts, then I will playing without a crafted item. I would love for more to take this stance.

As for the motion sickness, is this because of the silly trails they added to the mounts by default. You can switch those trails off in the settings. I have seen others post on this forum about how the DF affects them, so if it is the motion in general, then you are not alone. It should have been normal flight until you had completed the storyline imho. Not the other way around. Maybe this is one of those lessons Blizzard actually learns for future expansions.

3

Nah, like I mentioned I’ve tried the accessibility options to deal with the motion sickness. All of them. It only had a minimal effect, and made no real difference to the nausea and inability to play the game without meds.

The issue is the speed and acceleration.

4

Well if you can get past the grind of the story line, then you get the choice of steady flight or DF. There is always the option of using a gryphon as well.

5

Yeah that’s the problem. Needing to use medication to do the campaign, is something I’ll never put myself through again. As for why I did it this time, is just because of the sunken cost.

Exactly, and I really hope they learn that lesson.

6

It is just pixels my friend. Don’t ever fall for the FOMO. You don’t actually own anything in the game, and anything that is already on your account is only ever one patch away from totally loosing its value.

7

IMO the main issue with professions in retail WoW is that they are not sustainable. They provide a huge gold income at the start of expansion. You could get 50-100k gold/hour skinning bees in the first weeks. And the same for mining+herbing. I don’t know about crafting, but I’m sure that numbers could be even higher, I just don’t like the afk spam aspect of the system.

But few months later and profits are gone. I don’t suggest anyone to bother with professions at this moment. The investments will not return.

8

It’s a bit of a long story, but it isn’t about the content in the game that I did it for. Thing is, I was dragged back into the game for Cata classic by a guy I had been getting along with for almost a decade both inside and outside the game. Then he screwed me over, and so I was left on my own after half a year had gone by, and so it was time to give tww at least a try.

I made an effort to get into a new guild, I wanted to get into PvE for the first time since MoP, and I really did my best to create a place for me and fit in with the social side of the guild.

Then the leveling started, and I was hit by the dragonflying. So I sucked it up, because I had already put myself out there so much in the guild. But life got in the way and so I had to take things really slow, and then recently it was time to check out the professions. Which led me here.

This thread isn’t about the gold aspect, although if it is as you say then yeah sure it’s a problem as well.

I made this thread to be about how you can’t ignore at the very least getting into the crafting orders, because if you ignore it then you’re punished when trying to do group and raid content. Even though the overhauled system in itself provides no meaningful difference from the original BoE crafts from the past.

I don’t mean it just being about performing worse. I mean it pretty drastically reduces your chance to get into the PvE scene, because not only will you be without pre-existing experience of having done it, but also being a less desirable character to invite due to not even having crafted equipment.

9

You don’t need professions for group and raid content. They bring nothing. You can buy everything on AH or from other players.

2 Likes
10

Yes, it does require crafting to get into the PvE scene. It’s easier for people with experience of the content to skip the crafted gear, like for example having done it on a main and then doing it on alts, but for people without experience then it requires thorough preparation to get invites or to get players to join you, because you’ll be competing against everyone else with that experience already.

I’ve also been told it definitely requires it for the higher difficulties, even for alts.

Even if you include trying to do it from the very start of new content, people are still going to show much greater preference for past experience of comparable content previously, and/or those having done thorough preparations for it such as having crafted gear.

But like I mentioned in the OP:

Also, Etly, it appears you think of the profession system and crafting orders as two different things. Thing is, they’re part of the whole profession system, just different parts of it. You should read the OP before you go with that “it ez bruh”-attitude.

11

I would like to see they go back to some more simplified design with professions the current system is too busy.

5 Likes
12

After moving to a new raid group I swapped from a tank to a DPS. I farmed crests for a few days to get weapon, ring, neck, waist and wrist crafted to 636. I never paid more than 2k for a craft. So you do not currently need a crafter of your own to get stuff done. I did have trouble finding a crafter on Agamaggan for an alt, and ended up moving this char to a more popular server. This enabled me to either pay a mate or find a crafter easier in chat.

You can craft cross server within the same guild, but not just by the name only. It is a hole Blizz is unlikely to plug as it makes them some cash.

13

As explained to Etly already, they are the same system. Crafting orders = profession system. Just because you’re not the one crafting it personally, it doesn’t mean it’s not part of the same system.

14

I edited my post for clarity.

15

Something is disconnecting parts that shouldn’t be disconnected for people, so I’ll try to clarify the overall picture a bit better:

First, the profession system is artificially complex without any meaningful reason, as explained in the OP, and that includes the crafting orders. The limitation of it being BoP only makes everything so, so much worse, because you’re left with no choice but to look into all this in order to get what you need to increase your chance to be able to do PvE content, because people are very selective in who they play with and the competition for spots in groups and raids are pretty severe no matter if it’s in a guild or with strangers; because the punishment for compromising as a group or raid is generally disliked.
Even something as basic as what class or spec you play, or whether you’re able to play a different role as an off-spec when needed, or the ability to off-heal without changing the spec, is based on that very same premise. It’s all about optimization for the best outcome, which makes it a competition to be the one picked for when forming a group or raid.
People don’t want to join groups/raids where they feel like they’ll carry a pug leader either, so making your own is just as limited.

So you end up faced with two options as a person who isn’t already indoctrinated. You either achieve the minimum of learning everything needed to know your way around crafting orders, or you face the vastly increased difficulty of getting into the PvE scene because you’ll be less desirable to play together with, because for one you lack the experience, and secondly you also lack the equipment with bonuses so strong that it severely reduces your output, which in turn makes it much harder to get into the scene in the first place. And then you really need it if you wanna progress into the high difficulty content, so it simply can’t be ignored as a part of the core of the game.

The root of everything is that you have no choice if you want to get into PvE as a new/returning player. Blizzard having removed that choice is a huge problem, which is what this thread and my feedback to Blizzard is all about.
And it’s all caused by the meaningless artificial complexity for everything in that profession system (which includes crafting orders!).

16

I find professions very simple when it comes to crafting.

I have personal alts just to craft items for my main. I have no desire to make gold from them. They serve a good purpose in the endgame, allowing me to craft any items I’m missing.

Dragonflight professions were kind of lame, but The War Within and Ingenuity were a very good step forward in simplifying them. Also, knowledge points are now easier to farm because of Patron Orders.

17

Or in other words, it’s equipment crafted on one character, to then be used on another character. Exactly the same outcome of the original BoE crafting system. The rest is just artificial complexity added to the system’s design, for no meaningful reason whatsoever.

18

I dunno. I figured out the system quite easily after not playing Retail since Cata. It’s not perfect, but it’s also pretty easy to get some use out of it as either a crafter or someone who doesn’t craft and just wants to have stuff crafted. I figure that perhaps it might be improved by fixing the public order system (which is currently semi-useless, as you can’t set a minimum quality level required, so it might only get used for a few non-qualitied items), but otherwise it’s about the same it’s always been except crafters get some potential profit from saving mats through Resourcefulness or Multicraft.

I’ve heard that some people say that they enjoy the semi-exclusivity the new system grants them during the first couple of months, similar to what being a master axesmith would do in early vanilla - being one of the few people on the server who can craft an Arcanite Reaper or w/e.

It’s also not that expensive to level a crafting profession, provided you’re actually packing a gathering profession aligned with the crafting one. I think I expended maybe 100k to level six different crafting professions across five characters (BSM, ENG, LTW, ENC, TLR, ALC), and I figure I already made half of that back through crafting orders I do sporadically when someone in trade chat asks for a reforging or crafting, plus I have pretty much at least one piece of crafted gear that cost me nothing on every char.

Apparently it used to be way worse in DF due to not having Patron Orders and crafting knowledge coming in very slowly, though. I like the fact that the system endured for more than one expansion and is being actually improved upon.

19

I think all the multitude of paths and the system design is not needed. I dont see whats the point of all the multitude of paths and skills we put into the paths if we eventually can have all. I would like to go back to the old system or just make the current less busy :dracthyr_a1:

20

Good for you.