Melees have been a Meme for quite a while now and usually you don’t see Melees in Tourneys and or even ladder play expect of WWDK. But let’s be honest the gameplay WWDK has to play is quite sad humping pillar basically 24/7 to hide from overlord casters.
The Problem with Melee Cleaves are that Healer are basically unkillable gods which is Melee Cleaves best bet to secure kills. Another Problem is that Melees take a lot more damage compared to Casters duo Melees having to missplace a lot to make some risky and worthfully plays which is a disadvantage of Healers Mana in Melee Cleaves too. And let’s not talk how Melees are getting punished for pushing too far while you can’t say the same about Casters Consider i am not talking about Discipline Priests
Rdruids are basically the biggest Joke currently the only one way you can kill a Rdruid is when you get a full length stun (legsweep,Hoj) but even then praise to god, Rdruids still have Barkskin. Swiftmend being an instant cast spell and healing for 40% max HP makes casting a joke with guardian affinity they can just sit bear whenever they want and take no damage paired with Boomkins/Destro/Ele a no go target to kill and never possible to do so. Also let’s not forget that you just can’t cast a Blizzard at the point of the drinking Rdruid like Casters. You have to MOVE your whole way as Melee to the Rdruid being on the other side of the Map to disrupt drinking.
Rshamans are basically the joke of the expac. People remembering “ug ug zug zug train the blue” from back in the day it was not a meme at this point. It was a viable and good strategy maybe a bit too harsh for rshamans side, but it was a strategy to beat rshamans with locks and whatever not other casters. Now Rshamans basically walk faster in Ghost wolf SNARED and take no damage because of pack spirit trait which is retarded unpunishable.
Divine Favor should get higher cd otherwise fine hpallys based around CDS and no dampening.
MW 55 sec cooldown on coccon should get removed make it 90 seconds baseline and be fine with it. MWs are just waiting for Rshamans and Rdruids to get tuned down to get on the #1 again. They’re pretty solid at all.
The only one Melee which can fight back some of the caster/healer Dominance is WW because of the tools to have basically a good answer for a lot of situations against casters. And Rogue in comps like RMP/D and imagine which thing people want to get nerfed.
Melees counter themselves while you cant take this example to Casters. unbelievable thing, but WW gets countered quite good by Jungle and Teams with Feral/Hunter in it also is DH a good answer to WW too.
Melees need to get a lot of tools back again to compete with casters I don’t want Casters getting nerfed but Melees need to be brought on their level so both kind of comps are viable, but also opens up space for more range/melee/heal comps.
Melees need to hit harder BUT they need their uptime nerfed. They need the CDs of gap closers etc increased. Or casters need more ways to create gaps, which i wouldnt recommend.
Look at Grmbl vs Method Black last night: with the meleecleave tunneling the frostmage. Frost mage is traditionally one of the better kiters in game. They had near 100% uptime tho. So the fights felt a bit like this:
w w w .youtube.com/watch?v=FtZcy2ay1ac
What you ideally want is gameplay where:
the caster needs casts to do proper dmg.
the caster has a slight upper hand in terms of mobility and/or control. They need that mobility or control to do damage.
If the melee finds a way to create enough up time they have the upper hand.
What you have now is a situation where most melee have near 100% up time but most casters burst harder + a lot of that burst is instant (since melee has near 100% uptime). So melee has to run.
You guys wanted disc priests to get nerfed, despite being the easiest healer to cleave even in 8.0 and ignored how strong every other healer was, all because you couldn’t 1v1 a disc priest doing WQs out there.
That’s not really true. There are ways to design impactful instant casts too, without it being broken.
Casters doesn’t need “better mobility”, and their control is better already. The only time a melee was brought up to caster-levels of control was MoP.
What needs to be more prevalent is casting and interrupting though. For example, in both BC and WotLK you had melee interrupts on an 8s cd, but locked out the school for a shorter amount of time. A mage’s interrupt had a 15s cd iirc, and the same thing there.
Then they dumbed that part down so bad players who doesn’t know how to fake cast properly wouldn’t be punished as often (I suspect that touched a nerve), and melees who were bad at landing interrupts wouldn’t be punished as often. Because that design of shorter cds and shorter durations of lockouts put the emphasis not as much on specific situations to interrupt, but more on interrupting and fake casting consistently. In other words, it created more of a skill difference instead of just being class vs. class that plays out itself.
Mage was the only caster that could kite back then, yet “somehow” other casters were played too. It’s because of fundamental differences to gameplay. Bringing down the mobility of casters, bringing back the original design of interrupts/lockout durations, and removing almost all ranged interrupts of melees is better overall. After that is done, the melees’ mobility can be brought down to what is appropriate, but it’s impossible to tell before the other changes have been made first.
Which you would get out by successfully faking, but a rogue who could land dem kicks and stun inbetween would as a result get more uptime. In other words, skill difference being a bigger factor.
easy way to solve it, buff mana regain and nerf healing overall, put back some of the over tuned classes, wollah a much cleaner gameplay.
edit: im not really a fan of that high dps high healing mindset, id rather have a intense game with strong cds, so you acttualy can kill targets, instead of ooming or just purely winning on DPS
Why would you like your own post, and 3(!) times at that… You’re forgetting the direct consequence of making healers too weak is that it inevitably reaches a point where it will become better to go as a full dps comp instead of with a healer, because if a healer can’t keep people up then it makes the healer a dead weight.
Which is why there has been a theme of asking for higher sustained DPS by all in exchange for lower bursts, because the difference of damage output between the regular abilities and during a burst has been quite large for a while now.
becouse its that god damn great, i had to loot an extra hand to get that 3rd thumb, i dont forget anything, im not talking about weak , im talking about strong burst, so people die. not from sustain lol
becouse its still over the top, if you use nourish you can littelry sleep while 2 dps pounding, with no damp, winning on mana or damp is a boring game, but did i say nerf it 50% i maybe even 10% is enough , and then buffing cds
In other words, if you shift the scale of damage to healing so far that damage becomes so ultra-strong as you seem to wish for, then it makes it better to bring another dpser because the healer would be dead weight.
It wasn’t a “kiting tool”, what are you smoking? It has always been a CC, with an added utility of acting as a peel. That doesn’t even come CLOSE to the definition of kiting.
god your stupid arente you, 3 dps will insta die, and you still have 2 dps to peel / kill / burst and cds and healing is still high, lmao , you think if druids got a 10% int nerf you couldent heal anybody anymore? i dont know how the nubmers shudbe tuned, i know that the state of this game is boring compared to previously. as mentioned 3 times, ideal gameplay imo, high pressure all the time, with outplays making the pressure better, but cds mattering more again, or even having more windows of burst, so you acctualy can kill things. and not insta top out of cc or even not dying in a fat go
You’re the one who can’t grasp the full picture. Healing and damage output is all relative. Healing can be 10% every 1s, but if the damage is 20% every 1s then it won’t be enough. If healing is 10% every 1s but the damage is 5% every 1s, then the healing is too much. Get it now? With increased damage to stupid levels, regardless of how little or how much healing is nerfed, it will reach a point where healing becomes superfluous and less worth than just bringing another dpser.
It doesn’t, no. It never did. Because to reapply slows was part of the norm so the priest would still be slowed, and melees would always connect again because they wouldn’t be slowed in such a scenario if all they’re hit by is the fear, so the act of “fearing” wouldn’t be kiting. It would just act as a peel in those scenarios. You’re conflating too much.
Not to mention tremor totem, berserker rage and WotF.
![:smiley:](https://d1bg94bbsh66ji.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/smiley.png?v=6" ":smiley:")