Why tho?.. Knowing blizz there would be 0 compensation for it.
“Oh you lack deff CDs? Well we will not give you more but you can now choose between what you have with what you had… one of them (or both) will more then likley be nerfed for pvp, just like your healing counterpart.”
That steed is still 4 points atm and the pathing from all 3 nodes leads to wings is just hillarlous. Ive mentioned the illusion of gameplay that ret has had before, well that pathing shows it on paper, also shows Blizz’s contempt for this class.
Nobody wants to play this outdated playstyle where the whole class is centered around one huge defensive and one huge offensive cd, both very easily countered.
It used to be nice back in the day but now the game has evolved.
Combat rogues running around with sub 1 min evasion, DH’s with sub 1 minute blur. Everyone has MS, gap closers, and a million micro-ccs. Retribution is outdated and needs a complete redesign.
And i totaly agree and said the same many times on here. Paladin toolkit is outdated as nearly everything we have is from Vanilla (not counting our attacks as we had nothing back then).
Whats the biggest addition for Ret toolkit over the last decade and a half? Its spellwarding that prot has had for how long?
But what does the playerbase ask for? LaotL and speed of light, both sevearly outdated to keep up with anyone.
Mages BASIC tree gives them Ring of frost 45 sec CD - Blastwave with buffed knockback 30/25 sec CD - Dragon’s breath 45 sec cd - 2 Novas with buffed dmg tollerance and can last longer - root from cone of cold - AoE slow, no CD and 50% slow - Altertime that resets Blink CD - Reflection. Lets not forget iceblock healing, barrier healing, mirror immage healing.
And most ppl are still on about that damn steed and want something that is actually WORSE then what we have today… with that i mean 6.3 sec Steed.
Edit: added in some CDs for mage abilities.
Edit 2: Remind me agian what we get on our basic tree? I just cant get past those 4 points on steed.
i feel mage is a really bad example to really give compared to Paladin.
primarily because we tend to always come through and always be among the strongest, i can whole heartily admit, i’ve swapped to mage, because i dont trust Shadow priest or Monk to come out near as good as mage realistically.
Paladins i think the primary issue is 1) Steed just looks silly, and 2) most of the outcry is primarily for a gap closer. the problem without a Gap closer, paladins relying entirely on speed increases to stick to a target. and Judgement has a Shorter CD then Steed which means Longer uptime when chasing.
I don’t mind the looks of steed, I just mind that it takes two gcds (freedom, steed) to even start running towards somebody and by then, they have already realised what is going on ages ago.
Meanwhile, DH, warrior, rogue, monk, etc… just get there instantly and have the element of surprise.
But ppl arent asking for an actual gapcloser, they are asking for slower versions of a speedbuff and without emancipate the result will be far worse then what it is today.
Forget the look of steed, in the end its just a speedbuff, nothing more. And what is asked for is to replace it with a slower speedbuff.
Those that have actually asked for a gapcloser on the EU forum is less then 5 ppl, Akcope and me included.
And as for mages as an comparison is actually a perfect example of a class that actually moves forward with new tools that has accumulated over the years VS a class that has stagnated.
ah i misread what the comparison was for then haha,
maybe my lack of my interaction with the forums is prolly why i havent seen as many screeching for Steed to be Replaced. most paladins i know are annoyed by lack of gap closers haha.
easy enough to ignore, til u play a large race and get stuck on doors in Certain dungeons.
While i can agree “Replacing steed” for something inferior solves nothing… i’d rly like it if they’d make a Glyph which Removes the Steed and just has the Paladin move quickly.
And here is my main problem with paladin community at large, this one move alone would make most the community happy and in some cases even satisfied at large with the paladin class. It solved nothing, added nothing, changed quality of life issues at best. The specc is stagnant and beginning to rot but all is fine if the steed is gone?
Guess what? They also get mindspike back for shadow, tendrils root, divine aegis, blessed recovery. There is something fun that blizz removed in past and gave it back for palas in DF? NO
They don’t care about palas. Next few expansions they will fix it.
not all is fine. its not a standalone change people want by itself.
Its a change among many, however, many arent developers and i dont know exactly from a Mechanical point of view would fix the class, so simply state what they do know would make the class feel better for them.
also, many have simply accepted. its Stagnant rotting design, isnt leaving so simply accepted their never going to get more then that.
we arent going to see a Paladin rework, their not going to do it. its been outcried for YEARS. its liek hoping blizzards going to remove void form. or Blizzards going to fix feral.
Its simply. not a option, because blizzard will never do it.
Blizz has made several rewamps for paladins, just not good nor fast ones.
First real rewamp was in WotlK… what did they do? Just simply adding an actual rotation with more then 2 attacks and with little deadspace between attacks.
They did so again in cata with adding Holy power but totaly dropped the ball on how to generate holy power… single attack on 6 sec CD. Added rebuke as a talent when no other cs had to spend point on it. LaotL came in here aswell but with a deadzone of 15 yards and lasted 3 sec… meaning you did not get in range by the time the buff ran of an then you were to close to get it again.
Another rewamp in MoP by making Holy power generating more fluid… you know actually functioning, and removed the deadzone in LaotL…
And the last Rewamp in Ret design in Legion, leading mainly to our current state.
So 2 expansions for an actual rotation - 3 for an interupt - 4 for a speedbuff (that isent passive) - and 10 now with 0 gapclosers and nearly 0 controll on other players.
This shows nothing other then Blizz having massive contempt for the spec.
What was it they said again “we know mobility is fun but its not what we envision for you”? That is how i read it as atleast.
That ppl call ret a wheelchair specc since legion kinda baffles me, to me that was always the case. We were only running faster in 2 expansions out of 10 while having emancipate/cleanse. We were always a slow class, just hard to stop.
Remember it used to be worse, the core concept of paladin was that nearly everything we had has a counter. Seals and wings could be purged, auras had a bypass stat on gear and Mass dispell etc is a remnant of that core concept.
Paladins always have a special rule that only applies to us. Hammer of wrath for example counting as both melee and a spell. Our Deff CD dispellable while others are not, like DK bubble, monk bubble, hunter bubble, priest bubble, priest mist etc. Mages iceblock is only there to throw others of and its by far not their main deff CD.
Edit: Also the CD of lay on hands, why is it still 10 mins? How is it counted as a powerfull spell still when non healing classes can go from 20-100 with their CDs these days? Lets not forget the debuff of these “powerfull” CDs that also just applies to us, mages hardly count for this as no other spell but iceblock has this debuff.
I agree whole heartedly on the situation regarding changing steeds apperance fixes nothing. It doesnt help its viability nor does it change jts design in any positive way.
But i think your missing one vital point in your argument.
Is it cool.
The gameplay, the effects and the aesthetical parts of the class will drive players to main the class far more then its dps in a long term scenerio.
I dont play feral druid because i think getting good at it will be rewarding.
I play a feral druid because its aesthetically cool.
And pooping a horse to ride every minute isnt cool. I will tell you what was cool. Turalyon diving 600 yards in a light beam into a demons face.
Balancing the class is one thing and is highly important. Updating its design is also a major important point also, however.
Theres a reason the people on this forum arent rerolling to anything that does good dps, and thats the aesthetical attachment to their class. The demand to be a paladin. So yeah i think the aesthetical effects and particals of the class is highly important and if masses simply think the aesthetical choice chosen for paladins is simply unfun, then no matter what u do to paladin. They wont be happy.
Paladin horse, feels bad. Becsuse its illogical, it doesnt make a whole lot of sense and feels like a feature torn out of diablo, theres no sense to where u fetch a horse from. Ur character litterally just pushs one out mid fight lol.
It just makes it look like a meme. Quite litterally. The horse is a absolutely meme. It could be the most powerful mobility spell in the game. But jt looks like a joke. Its goofy. Its weird, it gets stuck in doors in pve content and its just overall obnoxious
Its not my argument that the visual should be removed, i rather like the look of it and fits the class.
Its what most of the community wants and many of them activly even asks for a nerf of what we currently have just to get rid of it by asking for SoL to replace it.
It feels bad because its JUST a speed boost and on GCD for ret. For Prot it was far better as it lasted longer, made them immune to several things and also had a knockback effect. Why didnt ret get that version? Why must we wait several expansions to get the tools prot gets? It happened with Interupt and Spellwarding aswell!
We arent only far behind other classes in our toolset, we are even far behind our other speccs!
The same horse that we could summon since vanilla? The same mounting that everyone has… you know they ALL just magically appear? Whats not paladin like about fighting mounted, especially warcraft paladins? I played Warcraft 2 as a kid, it was basically my first introduction of a paladin.
Nothing you just said makes sense to me and can only take it as a copypasted opinion you have read on the forums and probably tracks down from a youtuber rantings about the horse. Why do i state that? Because exactly what you have said has been mirrored so often on the forums nearly word from word.
and true, but i also play a druid… which mounting is far more normal as its shapeshifting.
to stack here, when its normal mounts. it aint during a Duel… dunno i jkust find it weird to suddenly Mount mid combat… without any of its combat centred around any form of mount
with using mounts to fly. or Move faster A to B i just accepted WoW cant make it cool.