Might as well remove bubble from PvP in Dragonflight

Classes Paladin
22

But drood forms looks exactly the same as the magical horse… from a puff of smoke, just like the mount. No transformation but poof… now you are the horse/cat/teddy/attack chopper etc. It looks just as silly if not far worse imo… The teddy attacks dont even look like they do more dmg then a plush toy, kitty attacks are like asking a puppy for their paw!

BUT they have a function other then just speed, thats the main flaw of the ret horse… it adds nothing, its just cosmetic and therefore just silly. Even your “horse” form has the function of unrooting you and removing snares, not to mention breaking Poly.

But you cant tell me drood forms dont look janky as hell when used, especially when spammed.

23

I just cant view it as u do im afraid.

i go off running on my lill pally mount… and charge into a Door to get stuck. have to cancel my mobility skill and go catch up on pally wheelchair CD.

In combat Mounting. is Just silly. its pointless aswell its not even like diablo where atleast the horse combat is ACTUAL combat…

it shouldnt be happening and i dont like it,

i tolerate it for mounting and Simply moving across maps, because i just pressume the tech is too old for them to get a proper arriving mount to mount or a Slower transformatino to depict.

but generally.

Once my char begins combat on a Druid. my form no longer really changes… so i can put up with it, paladins just dont get the luxery.

if it actually had a Mechanic… a Advantage… I.E Pulls people across the floor behind them… or allowed u to charge at targets. i’d accept it.

but a Horse = Should Charge at targets.

Feels like im one of the thieves in baby driver

IM OUTTA CDS GET ME OUT

u can explain druid forms away with “Magic”… however a physical horse doesnt work as good.

24

I have said exactly this like 2 times now to you alone… Its cosmetic only, the horse adds nothing to combat for ret unlike what it does for prot. Is it that you skip parts i write?

They can add so many other stuff to the mount aswell as you know, they took only the cosmetic part from diablo but nothing else and they can specc it to do several things.

And this… you do know its a magical horse that we summon? Summon being a keyword here. And it IS a MAGICAL horse that has lore behind it atleast for the original paladin classes that we got from a questline.

I dont really care for the non paladin races that call themselfs paladins. I dont like playing large races nor do i like using large mounts for the sole reason that i cant run up halfway up the tunnel in WSG mounted nor into the berserk huts.

If you like playing those races you better learn where you can use your skills… just like mages do with Blink.

25

it doesnt matter. its Usuable inside Combat and Its actively used in combat for mobility in combat.

I dont care what it does for prot, i dont like it on prot either.

a Horse would only be acceptable in a Charge animation with a Stun, or if it Was animationally alike Diablos which Uses Ropes of Light to drag Enemies for continous DoT Damage.

Yes, Mounted crusaders arent a Abnormally they do exist, Except WoW doesnt faciliate PROPER mounted combat, where a Paladin actually initates Combat Abilities on a Horse.

Sprint, Roll, Fel Rush, Vengeful Retreat, Speed of Light, Tiger Dash,

they just look Cooler. More Sleek. Less In ur face and Overall Smarter in combat.

well blizzard created them regardless and its Silly design to conceptually invent a mechanic that makes some races quite litterally not bne able to use it.

or just do what i did, which is Roll one of the 12 other optional classes which have no silly ideas and Delete the paladin as i have.

quite litterally… i void the Mount nonsense with Quite litterally ANY Other class in the game and that imho. Just is 100,000x Better. then even a Overpowered 300% Movement Speed, In combat Flying Horse which Lands for 100,000 AoE Dmg.

I animationally. Just have Pure hatred for the concept.

im a Feral druid, i obviously have no real regard for Meta, nor Playing whats best, my problem with the horse has never been its balancing. weather its weak or strong. my problem is i disagree with the animation itself.

I dont like it, and Simply think pre-legion Ret looked cooler, felt cooler and Was simply from a Gameplay point of view. Better

26

Sure… play the janky dodo with bear hugs attacks while complaining about the looks of a combat warhorse.

You have no ground on complaining how silly a class looks. Paw? ill give you a treat! ^^

27

Ofcourse i do.

Its a opinonated subject. I have every grounds to complain about animations i dont enjoy.

Druid looks better then paladin. And since legion, druid has grown to be massively popular and atleast was the most played class in legion and BFA.

Dont have current numbers in SL but i doubt druid populations low.

Although i will say im confused by janky dodo with bear hug attacks… lol we have no skins which do that,

Either way blizz will do what blizz will.

Pally will take another 2 years of its same design.

Guess plenty of other choices so it dont matter too much to me anymore

28

Think we can all agree the horse looks silly and is one of the most obvious speed buffs you get in the game. What annoys me the most is that it’s on the gcd. Just taking it of would already help. Also rets are probably the quishiest melee class in the game with an easy to counter defense. Shame.

2 Likes
29

Ok i dont know how to break it down for you… Paladins are the most obvious ANYTHING in the game! Big shiny wings for burst, big shiny bubble for deff, big shiny Sun like bubble for dmg deff, flaoting swords for melee deff, big shiny circle for mobility and big shiny crown bubble for “utility” deff.

Other then the floating swords everything i mentioned above has at one point been Purgable… yes even bubble due to a bug they didnt fix for over 6 months!

We are built for being countered as most of our tools were made for being dispellable.

So tell me again about the pony being the most obvious mobility in game… i can kinda tell when other classes use it due to them ehm… MOVING faster!

Can you tell when DKs, DHs, Druids or Rogues etc are suddenly immune to CC without addons? Their buffs are far more subtle and not a shining beacon of light!.. Then again their deff CDs cant be purged so theres no need to telegrapth it.

Edit: This is added with the wheelchair specc we have always had… ooh a 45% minisprint? Still far to straight forward and easy to counter. How do you counter a leaping/charging warrior, a rogue that teleports behind you with an attack, a druid in general, monks and DHs? As soon as a root is over they are all over you, snares dont matter for them.

30

Ever since the new animation of Judgement in Legion you could only cast it if the target was infront of you, where it used to not matter where the target stood as long as they were in range of the abillity.
It’s not that just changing Steed to LAotL would fix the mobillity issue but instead give us all of the other Judgement perks back to how they were in WoD.
That means make it castable even if the target is behind you, make it slow the enemy by 50% for 2 sec with a talent.
On top of LAotL.
In PvP situations I would most definetly take this over Steed any day.
Not to forget that you would get 20% additional movement speed from Judgement for 20 sec if you were using Seal of Justice together with the talent Empowered Seals which is also astronomically more fun than Steed and Hand of Hinderance will ever be

31

Far to slow and counterable in todays gameplay. Dont need to face a direction to activate steed either to make it work so no idea why that is an arguement to begin with.

Dont remember it having a slow ever, tho might be wrong. They stacked so many effects on judgment even back then.

If they ever gave the option to choose between the 2 (best version of LaotL that we had and todays steed with 2 charges) i would stick with steed. The other one maybe for PvE. I dont like speedbuffs in general, steed included. I want gapclosers, instant ones that are hard to counter on short CD.

Btw Arcane mages Berrage is on 3 Sec CD, buffs their speed by 50% for 5 sec and slows targets speed by 50%… gl catching up without emancipate, then add their 5-ish blinks per min. Other classes have moved on to get better things, demand the freaking same!

Edit: Lets not forget they can cast Ring of frost, sheep and casted attacks while moving, they also have dragons breath and thats from their GENERAL tree!

Still a easaly countered speedbuff, still slower then steed and was still boring gameplay back then. That you would elovate that gameplay as fun is just… no, was frustrating back then and wouldnt help at all if we got that back in DF.

32

Watch this video and tell me again how Ret mobillity with Steed in Dragonflight is better than the way it was in WoD.
Also funny that you think one shot burst Ret is more fun than having a meaningful rotation with seal dancing

1 Like
33

Did you play like that? No you didnt, he did.

Where did i mention anything about that? Also seal dancing? The thing ppl had to come up with to get extra proccs between swing timers because we had nearly zero attacks in vanilla and TBC? It was outright bad design that forced a playstile that very few knew about at that time!

Edit: Ah seal dancing with empowered seals… I dont really complain about our rotation or what it should be like… main issue for me has been Cata or pre wotlk ret that has very little to do with WoD ret.

Btw, watch his vid a bit closer, he sometimes uses engi boots and glider to keep up with his targets… So much for your golden era mobility.

1 Like
34

Anyway I virtually know nothing about you, about what you would like Ret to have.
You said something about gap closers which I certainly agree with.
I don’t really mind anything as long as it’s something non related to Steed. Or even Steed for that matter to remove slows and snairs and put it off the GCD.

I personally dislike Steed because I always even forget that I have it during duels on the DF Beta.
Atleast when im fighting melee, im more focused on kiting them and healing myself.
I would rather much have constant speed buffs granted when you use an offensive spell than a manually activatable very short movement speed increase that looks goofy and costs a GCD and in that case I would rather have Long Arm of the Law or Pursuit of Justice.

Also Steed is nerfed from 6 sec duration to 4 sec in the current itteration of the DF talent tree.

The kind of gameplay that Savix is doing, kiting people while damaging enemies and healing yourself, you can’t do it that effective in Shadowlands or DF because literally every single class has better mobillity than you do.
You only have one charge of freedom and you lack Magic Cleanses or Emancipate for that matter. Your Steed has little to no effect while you’re slowed and would only encourage using Freedom and Steed at the right time, pop all your CDS and oneshot someone then going back to being kited for the next 2min waiting for wings to come up again. This is what boring gameplay looks like, definetly not what is happening in this video.

I don’t even know why we’re arguing about this, having Emancipate and Double Freedom is obivously better than not having it.

Also what’s wrong about using Engi Items from time to time you don’t prove a point trying to discredit the entire video by saying that and ignoring all the other things that are going on, the way he gets out of sticky situations with clever use of his abillities and the help of engineering was always welcome in any Era of WoW PvP.
Why would he not use it is my question?

I mean the only thing that im getting here is that you would like to play warrior but somehow ended up on the Paladin Forums.

35

All your points on steed i agree with, but i also think that gettng rid of current (that being the key word here) for LaotL or speed of light etc wont do us any good in DF because everyone has upped their mobility since we had those.

Because i want to move forward. I want updated tools to fit todays gameplay and not be stuck like we are about to do in DF (plus take 1 step backwards with steed) or move several expansion steps backwards like you, both those options are bad imo.

36

You remain to say it is bad without providing any actual reasoning behind why, saying our current movement is better than what is shown in the video without any reasoning leaves me to believe you are just completely unsatisfied with the paladin class in general, in it’s current state and in every single state that it was in previously.
If that’s the case I would strongly advice you to reroll and find peace because it simply does not matter if an abillity is from a previous expansion that does not make it good or bad and it’s not going backwards instead what is going backwards is removing so much of the things that we had like they did to us in Legion. The truth is many of us fell in love with Ret Paladin or Paladin in general back in MoP or WoD and it is nothing like back then anymore.

If Ret was still like this I would play all day everyday.

37

So you are gonna continue to be stuck in the past i see. Ok the only plus the past us had was emancipate, it should never have been removed. 2 charges of freedom meant nothing when it was instantly dispelled, its was a glorified emancipate screaming to be dispelled.

LaotL was baked into our rotation so there wasent a GCD issue. I think judgment by this point had a GCD atleast, dont remember but also thats lazy design imo. Steed should be out of GCD yes.

Only reason i think steed is better is that its faster, thats it.

You arent? Could have fooled me with your other post.

Edit: Btw stop showing old gameplay against classes that dont exist anymore, none of them work like that now so the tools he is using then has little value over how things work now… only emancipate matters from back then!

38

That’s like saying the permanent 50% movement speed increase talent that rogues had in WoD is worse than Sprint because Sprint is faster even though one is spammable and the other is on a long CD.
I would rather have 45% movement speed for 3 sec every 3 sec than 100% movement speed for 4 sec every 45 sec.
I do agree with the edited part to some extend however you do know that double Freedom in syngergy with Unbound Freedom would still be better than not having it right? You can’t dispell Freedom with Unbound Freedom taken.
So double Freedom and Emancipate should be the bare minimum.
And on top of that I would advocate for a choice note between LAotL, Pursuit of Justice and Divine Steed.
So everybody can be happy, perhaps bring out a Glyph that alters Steed’s appearance to the one of Speed of Light and jobs done.

39

Ok here is the thing, sure its better to have it then to not have it. But sprints are so easy to counter, you are still the charging bull blindly going for the red cape. Your destination is set to 2 options, to your target or away from it. In my mind, its better that its fast rather then slow but its still extreamly boring, you have no setup to outplay others, its their task to outplay you.

As you like visuals so much here are some DF clips.

Even if you were to get all you wanted would you get near that mage? And be honnest here, would you feel skillfull if you mannaged to burst one down? I would feel like the mage slipped up rather then me actually beating him.

Here is another

This is fun gameplay, it has a setup, it has strategies, it has burst and controll over the feild. This feels like skillfull gameplay!

Then the forever stagnated Ret… run to target and smash! Has never changed since vanilla! There is no dimension when playing ret, other classes provide the controll, the setup for the kill, the debuffs etc.

Sure get your silly little sprint. burst your targets down when others have served them up for you. Keep watching a high rated arena streamer killing ppl in randoms and world pvp and think thats good gameplay.

40

I started playing in the lvl 20 twink bracket in SL because you are able to customize your character trough Legion boe’s which can proc very specific stats such as vers/haste/speed to have a more WoD-Pursuit of Justice oriented playstyle because I was sick and tired of the missing passive mobillity on endgame Ret.
However since Paladins don’t have Freedom at lvl 20 I was still pretty wheelchair and even if you got big dmg and big heals people are not afraid of you if you can’t move.
Anyway now that Blizzard has put f2p’s / twinks in the same bgs and seperated them from levelers we are now able to play bgs with lvl 29 twinks.
I am currently running 29% passive speed on top of a lot of haste and vers together with Unbound Freedom on my lvl 29 Ret twink and I manage to get the Sprint running animation and believe me if I say people are a lot more scared of fast pallies than they are of snail moving ones.
It still catches people off guard even if it’s not a teleport right behind them or a charge. it’s still scary having someone with the intention of killing you, running towards you with lightning speed and they feel very overwhelmed sometimes.

41

I am very dissapointed with virtually any Ret Paladin animation ever since Legion.
They butchered Crusader Strikes and Templar’s Verdicts character spin animations with these semi modified auto attack animations.
Take a close look at Blade of Justice, Hand of Hinderance, HoJ, Conscecration, WoG and Divine Storm. They are all the same character animation = You holding your sword up.
This was not an update this was a downgrade in every possible form to the point where even changing the animation of Judgement caused the abillity to have a restriction that it didn’t have before that, only being able to cast it if the target is infront of you.