The new MM defensives should be too all specs, if not at the very least to Survival…
They gave it to MM because MM eats more dmg because it has to stand still to cast.
But I agree, all hunters are squishy and it should have been given to all 3 specs.
Anyway it is a very weak buff to our defense and its usual Blizzard laziness, buffing our abilities by 10% instead of reworking our defenses.
In my opinion Exhil should have been 100% health restored as its on ridiculous high CD (2min)
See for example vial drink 30sec (rogue) and impending victory 25sec (warrior) both heals for 30% on short CD.
120% health regained within 2min while hunters gain 30% health every 2 min lmao
All classes can gain their health back 5x times more than a hunter (some classes even more 10x) which is very unfair.
And hybrids are worse offenders.
Survival of the fittest is just too long cd, should have been closer to 1min30sec even that would have been bad compared to other class defenses (see for example DH dodge) Dont know how its in pve but from my point of view their dodge is way too OP in pvp. Less than 1min CD aswell. I would have dropped turtle in a heartbeat for DH dodge.
The way we get treated by Blizzard just isnt fair.
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That would make it equivalent to paladin’s Lay on Hands, which is a 10 minute CD (which can be reduced with talents… just like Exhilaration).
30% heal every ~1.5 minutes (with Natural Mending) puts it on par with druid’s Renewal, which is about right. What hunters need is either some passive self-healing just from using abilities (many classes have this now) or a smaller heal on a shorter CD in addition to Exhilaration.
Yes, it should be 2 minutes, and 8 sec instad of 6. And 40% baseline.
Can I have have Deterrence back please and thank you?
Deterrence was way better than turtle is. We had 2x charges of it. 5sec deflecting attacks. We had 2x charges to save our lives a second time. Now we have turtle mud that extends our death by 8 sec.
See how they nerfed our defenses over the expansions, even though we didnt have that good defenses. Also they removed Spirit Bond, 2% health for every second that rewarded the hunter for kiting.
It was THE BEST thing we ever had. Any hunter that played it in mop/wod would remember it and miss it so so much! It was perfect for ANY content.
With spirit bond we had another safe net against automated dmg (bleeds,dots) we could go behind pillar and kite with traps and regnerate health. Now its impossible if you are at 20% hp its a huge mistake to hide kite around pillars because dots and bleeds will make you die slowly over time from 20% to 0.
Its just ridiculous. For example dalaran gaming (youtube channel) its rare to see a hunter there. Even the best ones die fast and if they are able to 1v1 first round its high high chance they wont last for round 2 because of our high defense cooldowns and utter lack of selfheal. All 3 hunter specs are almost NON-EXISTENT there.
You see all other classes there have all thoses amazing selfheals that makes them ready for next round. For example chicago (a good shaman player I saw there) healed to FULL health and was ready for round 2.
How is this fair?! HOW?? while hunters dont have those AND cant EVEN camo after they win 1v1 because dots and bleeds from last opponent will be active ON us and hinder us to camo = auto lose round 2.
And I also want to add something to PvE raids. When I raided on my priest it was very hard to heal hunters. Their hp would go up and down all the time and this happened only to hunters. Extremely stressful, and hunters were the first ones to die, and most players I had to resurrect after boss were hunters, and by great margin.
Exhiliration is useless aswell, should of been 30sec CD on par with Vial (rogue) and Impending Victory (warrior)
Mending Bandage is useless now as it breaks if you have a single dot on you. Blizzard didnt even consider to rework it (after feign death nerf) so survival can use mending at any time WITHOUT it breaking on damage.
I dont play survival at all but I know on a deep level that this isnt fair. To have feign death nerfed, only to have another ability rendered into useless.
Summary:
Hunter is struggling in all content.
*All 3 hunter specs die fast 1v1 in arena setting (not duel. see example dalaran arena)
*All 3 hunter specs get picked the last for raids. Raid leaders dont want them. They are the first ones to flop there.
*All 3 hunter specs are LEAST represented as a class in 3v3 (according to how Blizzard balance things around 3v3)
So where is the balance?
Losers at blizzard office have done everything in their power to nerf everything we have. Whoever design those things for our class are not fit for their job.
They are mud.
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The game is not balanced around 1v1s.
It’s extremely strong in both raid + M+.
Hunter is the most played class in the raid, and BM is the most played spec in the game when it comes to Amirdrassil.
Statistically, defensively it’s absolutely fine.
If you think it’s bad you are more than welcome to have that opinion, no point just flat out making things up though.
I said there are MANY classes that outperform hunter in EVERYTHING not just 1v1. They also perform better in raids, dungeons and 3v3 than hunter do. I want hunter to perform on par with other classes, on ALL content, and so I have listed those things to make hunter a better class and survive longer.
Your saying our defensives are OK.
I have been playing it since MoP so I know what went wrong with hunter class from that time to today.
Looks like your new to hunter class as you havent been playing it for a long time because you have no clue what is wrong with hunter defenses.
Aswell you dont play other classes so you can COMPARE them defense-wise to hunter.
Now be a good boy and stop saying wrong things. You say we are OK in raids, go and find a group in LFG for it, perhaps they will take you in when they see a GREEN name 
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BM is one of the strongest specs in the game in raiding right now. One of the best in m+ too. Idk what world you are living in.
BM is literally the most common spec played in mythic raiding like what are you even talking about lmao
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Its not the strongest spec. There are other melees and tanky casters that far surpasses bm and do everything better than bm. They do more dmg, they selfheal good so less work for the healer. insane good defensives on short CD, raid utility. <— Hunter have NONE of that.
It doesnt matter how good dmg we have, even if we were to have better dmg than others, those classes still would be chosen over us because they have it all; mobility, utility, selfheals, defenses. We dont have ANY of that in ANY content; just some pesky DMG. Nobody wants a dmg bot that doesnt do anything else for their group.
Edit: I have explained to you in a structured, easy way for you to understand what flaws hunter has. This has been discussed often here and many hunters agree that Blizzard need to improve these weak spots so hunter doesnt die easy. I have come up with great suggestions to Blizzard and they have to ingrain those into our toolkit.
I hope you stop pressing 1 2 3 mindlessly for a moment, and take some time to reflect on what I have said.
If you dont, keep living in your bubble.
2 Likes
Except statistics show that they literally don’t. Everything you say is completely baseless and pure feelycraft. Hell, even anecdotally it’s obviously false, everybody just watched the RWF with 2 hunters on every fight sometimes even 3. So all your rubbish about ‘nobody wants a dmg bot’ is just completely unfounded.
Even when it comes to survivability in the highest mythic content (ie the hardest to actually survive) BM is absolutely fine. https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/35#metric=deaths
But keep preaching your feelings and ignore reality.
These threads truly do prove the point that whenever hunter is very strong, people will still whine and complain.
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I have to agree with Jerby here: they’re not.
I’m currently raiding with 2 other hunters (not always 3 of us on every boss fight, but always at least 2). Our damage is strong and, on prog fights, we’re usually all still alive when the RL calls for a wipe.
If you’re not getting picked for content you want to do, it’s most likely because other hunters who are better geared and/or better players than you are being taken instead.
With the giant difference that lay on hands can be used on other people…
Exhilaration is incredible bad, barely even noticable.
Turtle, like iceblock should also heal for 80% of your max HP when used.
Besides the Survival instincts should be 40% DR on 8s duration, but even 40% DR on 5s is fine as mostly you are using it to deflect a first hit.
Then hunter def cds are more than fine.
Hunters have already passive leech from the pet, except MM and that is generally the problem with hunter: everything is tied to stupid pets. Leech + BL vs spirit beast for a heal (bm) etc.
MM is forced to play without pet but at the same time you need to accept a dmg loss to use BL, incredible dumb design which is sooo easy to fix, but nope.
Simply have the pet leech heal the hunter, this way you have passive healing for SV and BM, and a choice between the Hero pet with leech, or the defensives pet with extra HP
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It’s not amazing, but over my mythic smolderon progression kill last night it healed for 1.85M over one single pull, compared to lay on hands 550k. Ice cold healed for 660k, just for reference.
Over the entire night, exhil healed for 38M, and lay on hands 9M. People should have more respect for exhil really, for a ~1 min CD it’s fine (A couple of uses were as low as ~50 seconds apart).
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It is hardly to compare those.
mages often only put 1 point in ice cold healing and the ability is generally not used to heal in the first place.
Lay on hands is not used on CD to heal and due to the high CD it is used as oh crap healing button and can probably only be used 1 per fight.
Since exhil is so bad, it will be used liberally because it won’t do amazing stuff anyways.
Exhil can be used for hard ticking dmg to easy the healers pressure a little.
Basically if an aoe pulse mechanic would do more than 100% of your HP over the course of some seconds, it is great.
If one pulse brings you to 10% and then there won’t be anything afterwards for 10s, it is quite useless anyways.
It would be more beneficial to reduce the dmg in the first place somehow.
it is better than nothing but it isn’t amazing at all.
I agree, but it’s important to put things into perspective.
If it was so bad then it wouldn’t get pressed. 2m healing over a fight is a rather large amount and it absolutely contributed to my survival. Again, not arguing it’s amazing, but that everybody saying it’s useless are completely wrong.
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That’s only a giant difference if you don’t need to use it on yourself. If hunters had it, they would always be using it on themselves, so the difference is irrelevant.
Not true. It’s exactly the same as druid’s renewal, which I rely on when I’m playing both feral and guardian.
Ice Block doesn’t heal by 80% of max HP by default. It requires a 3 talent point investment (one for Ice Block itself and 2 points into Cryo-Freeze). Turtle is a base ability for hunters and requires no point investment.
As a hunter ‘main’, I would welcome turtle being more powerful. I would also welcome a talent like mage’s Ice Cold that reduces its effectiveness but no longer prevents use of abilities. However, it would need to be balanced by an equivalent talent point investment.
You mean Survival of the Fittest, I assume. I don’t even take the 40% talent and don’t feel negatively impacted by only having 20% reduction. I prefer the reduced CD.
No, they don’t. Pet leech only heals the pet. Most of BM hunter’s damage comes from pet abilities, so the benefit of leech is tiny. MM actually benefits a lot more from leech IF they get the pet out, which is a valid strategy for some heavy AOE encounters as long as you’re willing to lose the extra dps from Lone Wolf.
That’s the POINT of hunter. It’s a pet class. I would like to see pet choice become more significant to playstyle and encounters, not less. (If people don’t like everything being ‘tied to stupid pets’, they should not play a pet class.)
Not forced, as I mentioned above. Dead dps do no dps, so sacrificing some damage to stay alive is a valid choice. And as for accepting damage loss to use BL, yes, that’s a thing. (BM hunters also accept survivability loss to use BL because we have to switch to a ferocity pet.) However, it’s irrelevant under the current meta because high key groups always have an augvoker.
MM is NOT a pet class as blizzard has really shown by making Lone wolf be the best talent choice in all scenarios for damage.
only because dps players are bad or why?
otherwise there would be plenty of situations to use it on another player
well as a tank it is great to have another emergency heal, especially 30% heal on tank hp level is a much larger number that you dont need to be healed by a healer.
not an arguement. mage has tonz of free points to skill it. hunters would as well
depending on key levels, 20% is enough of course. it probably is more important on high end keys
yea a pet class that has to rune lone hunter
and what i mean by tied to stupid pets are the families. if all abilities were available on all pets it wouldnt matter at all that it was tied to pets
that would apply to all dps in general, yet people still skill offensively.
also you dont pull out the pet primarily to stay alive rather then to press 1 stupid button for lust.