People love to hate what they don’t understand or think they do but they don’t.
During WW2, there was this quite unforgettable event known as Bombing of Dresden. You can google it up for details. Key things of this event is that “Allies” bombed Dresden city in Germany and killed civilians with high explosives and incendiary devices which in no way makes it okay and yet, that bombing becoming one of the moral causes célèbres of the war. Do I really have to mention event that is very similar in Battle of Azeroth?
For trolls, I did not say same, I said very similar.
For those that do not know, causes célèbres is an issue or incident arousing widespread controversy, outside campaigning, and heated public debate.
Now, since we know that Sylvanas is not Garrosh 2.0 and whoever argued that she is worse, should think again. Not to mention that this is WarCraft and not WW2. We know that her story is not finished and we also get these short but effective messages from devs that she is:
Morally grey
Her interests aren’t always aligned with the living
Evil is a state of mind
Going to Shadowlands for revenge is beneath her, she has grander aspirations.
The pact made with Helya was part of this, there are dots to connect and hints along the way.
Battle from Azeroth is far from over, we’ve got another battle ahead.
… and so on.
What if, by the end of this majestic story that we are all part of, Burning of Teldrassil turns out to be just another causes célèbres? You know, a “thing” that was done which will probably explain the meaning of morally grey as already explained above and how interests do not align with the living.
If all these “Garrosh 2.0” people are trying to apply realism to World of WarCraft knowing just word which is genocide, how about this point of view?
All is fair in war and games.
Honestly hate BFA for all the dumb threads like this it has spawned, she’s literally trying to kill as many people as she can to feed the jailer anima steroids which is starving all the other realms of the afterlife.
Dudes… wait… she might be onto something… what if like… killing all these thousands of people… wasn’t bad? What if like… she was a kerrigan???
She’s been retconned and character assassinated into a coldsteel the hedgehog tier character.
But we already know why she did it, it’s to kill as many people as possible and send their souls to the Maw because she wants to become stronger and set us all free due to her being a psycho who has a flawed view of reality.
People love to hate what they don’t understand or think they do but they don’t.
Also this is so cringy, stop being such an obnoxious shill.
What you are basically saying is “We know why she did it right now and that is the only reason we need” and who knows what all can happen before this is all over.
Your argumentation is no better than people’s ““reasons”” to hate Sylvana. I guess that 90% of wow players in not very bright (or just don’t care to read all of the lore, which is okey) so not everyone get the whole story. Everything what is happened, happened because of stupid-naive Boy-king, who provoked Sylvana in “Before the Storm”. Then three lies he offered to his people, three plans to crush the Horde and make “peace”. Then Sourfang honor-less betrayal, not once but twice. Dude look like big strong orc but acted like your hysteric passive-aggressive ex-GF, - instead of speaking his mind up, and openly rally the people, start the discussion inside of Horde, - he just passively-aggressive let the Boy-king live, and spared Malfurion. And people still think that he is a good guy!!! It like if in WW2 some pilot jump off an aircraft, and run into Reichstag with all allied forces battle plans in his hands, because he disagree with gasoline prices politics. Then Baine, literally knowing that it will shatter the Horde, just did it, instead of rising the stink. And after death of Rastakhan, and distraction of entire Zandalari fleet (FOR THE PEACE!!) they did corned Sylvana in, so she doesn’t have much of a choice. There is no “moral grey” there just Sylvana, and she is right. And there is circle of good-intended idiots, having pleasure time in company of each other.
Who knows, maybe, it will turns out that Sylvana never had good intentions for the Horde to begin with, but it wouldn’t excuse Baine, Alliance, and most of all - Sourfang. In real life people who acted like Sourfang and Baine, would be in prison or executed by War Time Law.
Going to play devils advocate here, but I’m feeling strong Illidan dejavus.
I guess people don’t feel as strongly about him, or at least aren’t as vocal regarding whether they hate him or not, but we should note that this manoeuvre was the literal modus Illidan used against the Legion.
And Legion was but a huge redemption arch for him regardless.
Reading people so freaked out when someone mentions this possibility regarding Sylvanas, becomes rather curious given we’ve just exited an expansion based around a figure that had this exact plan (to deal with a different enemy).
Edit: And before I have a bunch of people jumping on my back for it, I’ll clarify that I do not like this sort of development.
Well…yeah. A good part of the playerbase only knows him from BC. And nothing he did there seemed that irredeemable. He mostly sat there and preached the virtues of preparation.
Apart from that… in contrast to Sylvanas he never really successfully hurt a target anyone but Nelf lore fans cared about. His worst behaviour was 10k years ago, hard to care about that… That’s not sludging Southshore, despoiling “our” dead, fighting our leaders, and burning Teldrassil for the body count in the last few years.
I still think his redemption was stupid and unnecessary, and the character is a cringey edgelord. But I really don’t see why I would see his redemption as comparable to Sylvanas’ in any way.
There’s also the latest Blizzcon where they announced she has been working for death/the jailor for a long time now. Going against all of her internal monologue in pretty much every book, before the storm included.
Turns out she was playing 5D hungry hippos with you, the reader, all along.
Because in the events of a potential redemption, both characters would’ve been willing to take on copious amounts of casualties and dish out punishment on a planetary scale, for an indiscernible “greater good”.
And Illidan behaviour wasn’t just 10k years ago.
Outland suffered from his shenanigans quite recently, with stuff like thirsting the planet to death, experimenting with the orc clans to create an army, or feeding unprecedented amounts of innocent souls to create his portal network.
Yeah, I kinda understand once thing tho: the bad stuff characters do often is sidelined for as long as they don’t do so to playable races players can relate more with.
And I’d understand if Illidan got a wider pass than Sylvanas, regardless of whatever he did.
After all, he was just mistreating third parties.
But yeah, on a narrative level, both characters methods mimic each other rather nicely.
(Assuming the end goal Sylvanas has is indeed the “greater good”).
The hypothetical is the relevant part here. Sylvanas succeeded, Illidan didn’t. I would have a much easier time forgiving someone who wanted to kill my brother, missed him, and regrets it now than I would have forgiving him, if he were successful, even if the intentions were all the same. Moral luck is a thing. Driving over a child because you didn’t look at the street will be judged as a moral failing, while inattentiveness without harm will be excused.
Never saw any of that stuff, didn’t really know most of it, and don’t care about it, because I never cared about him… or Outland, for that matter. Sylvanas’ evil was pressed in my face, and was done at my doorstep. Since we are talking about attitudes that certainly matters.
After you telling my all about Illidan’s evils I might intellectually agree that he didn’t deserve redemption either. But that intellectual agreement still won’t make me feel what Sylvanas’ deeds made me feel. Intellectual agreement can’t make me care. And convincing me that Sylvanas deserves redemption, because Illidan got his, on the other hand, is about impossible.
Hey, trolls call all powerful spirit beings loa, don’t they? So the Jailer probably qualifies as one! And that’s totally what Sylvanas must have meant, really, truly, I’m serial.
