100% this!
You’re determined to talk semantics and skate around the original point by obsessing over spec popularity and my personal gaming habits, we are going to go around in circles because you’re doing everything to avoid addressing the differences in spec performance, the entire starting point of this discussion.
I mean Blizzard can see the differences, which is why they nerfed BM and Havoc, but those advantages still remain. You’re unwilling to listen to anyone’s opinion other than your own and you’re sitting there trying to deny the fact that I put up a key and I get 50 signups, I’m always taking a meta class over something like a Warrior because when all is equal they simply bring more to the table and the availability is always there.
More damage, more utility, ability to deal with afflicted and incorp, more flexible damage profiles which leads to those specs being easier to maximise dps, you’re making a safer bet on the invite. It’s laughable to suggest the class balance is good when looking at performance, simply laughable, and you’re dishonest in trying to suggest otherwise.
I never denied differences in spec performance.
But you keep whining that its horrible, that there is 0 balance, that the meta is oppressing you and bla bla bla… which is NOT the case.
And that is what I am trying to say.
NO! I am suggesting that your claim that nobody wants warriors in PuGs is based on your personal experience. And you extrapolating the performance of specs to why nobody wants warriors in a 20.
And I tell you: For a 20, EVERY SPEC performs. And what matters is NOT performance but skill. And ANYONE that claims otherwise is dumb. To the core.
There will always be a meta. There will always be some DPS that does better than others. But THIS meta of DH & BM is not even close to the oppression of S2 god-comp. And claiming otherwise is dumb.
A skillful affliction warlock (F tier) will do better than a DH (S tier) FOTM reroller that cant play it. But how do you prove the quality of the player?
Via rio. Via #of 20+ timed keys. Via connections… many ways…
And YOU are doing none of those. So your personal experiences you use to demostrate your point are invalid in this case. Because you claim nobody wants you cause your a warrior arms. And I tell you, in fact… GUARANTEE you that its not the case. Not for 20s.
If you were pushing your 27s/28s then its another story. But your not.
And I told you nicely, and a bit more aggressively, that there are things YOU can improve as a player. But you refuse to listen to them. Instead you come here whining about DHs and asking Blizzard and others to fix what essentially is a YOU problem.
But you miss the point, you’re never chosing between a FOTM reroller and a dedicated F-tier. You’re choosing between 2 dedicated players. You always have options, especially at keys in the 18-22 range, you’re going to get your choice of classes at your disposal.
So why would you take an underperforming spec? You’re not having to choose between these scenarios, it’s not like you’re choosing between a 3.6k rated Arms Warrior and a 2k rated Outlaw Rogue, not even remotely close, you have literally 50 people sign up to your group and you might be looking for a battle res, a lust, someone to deal with incorp/afflicted, and it just so happens that those specs also have very strong dps.
So why would you take a spec that has less dps and has less utility? You’re not going to, this example only works in your fantasy where you’re inviting MDI players over average joe.
I mean, I’m not really having any trouble in this 18-22 key range as a holy priest, it’s pretty much instant invites.
You’re a tank/healer, way way less availability. That’s the point I’m making, if you put up a key you will get a massive list of dps signup, you have your choice of the litter to pretty much invite any spec you want, even when there is not the absolute perfect option you will always have a good selection of highly geared/rio meta specs, there isn’t a reason to need to pick a lesser spec, which is why you don’t.
Tanks and healers are different because they are much shorter in supply, but people will also assume you’re a disc priest, which is the top healer spec.
because people are dishonest hypocrites.
they refuse to admit that maybe maybe its them who is the issue - instead this they pretend that its their class that is the issue .
its not like Dhs for example do 2x the dps that others are doing in typical pug with typical pugs.
yes they ay be like 10 -15 % ahead of some bottom class but if someone is doing 200k dps on pull that DH does 1 mln then sorry - its not class which is issue only bad player who is issue,
people also like to pretend because it makes them feel better. when reality is you can be totaly mediocre player and still do +20s. because of how they are tuned this season .
im th best example - because im epitomy of mediocrity - and still i started alreay to do first +20s with liek 475 itlv .
if i put a bit a bit more effort (and if i wasnt raiding ICC 4 nights a week ) i would be 485 and getting into +20s with so much ease
But I like being able to farm gear for raiding so I don’t mind M+ being easy. Plus the masochist who push +30s also want to get to full bis ASAP so they can push. Frankly at this point everyone just wants to unlock all gear in the easiest way possible so they can focus on whatever challenges they’ve chosen.
In normal games gear is locked behind challenges because their model is: you kill the dragon and get the loot.
In WoW, you kill the dragon, then kill it again, again, again, wrong item, again, again…
I don’t want to farm truly challenging content until I go insane.
Meanwhile a rank 1 warrior in full bis with a Legendary weapon is doing 45k less dps than a rank 400 Warlock in the same group. You point them towards actual data that is plain to see and they don’t wanna see it. They start pointing fingers at individuals trying to gaslight them about literal data that is literally right infront of you that fully backs up what is shown.
Archon, (WCL data driven tier lists) also shows exactly the same thing. You got 50 people signup to your key, who are you going to take if both are 2800 rio and 480 ilvl… Are you going to take the Fire Mage, The BM Hunter, Outlaw Rogue, Demo Lock, Frost DK, Arms Warrior?
100/100 times the Frost DK and Arms Warrior are left behind. They bring less utility and they bring way less damage. Don’t be sitting there like “this is about you the player” when some specs are doing 15-20% more damage, in addition to being better utility.
Nobody is talking about doing 200k dps on a 1mil dps pull, I can do a 1million dps pull with a Hurricane buffed Thunderous Roar and OP/SS combo. It’s not about that, other classes are bursting higher, more often and don’t sacrifice as much single target damage.
You know the legendary axe effect can do 30-40mil damage in a dungeon, and even that is not bridging the gap, a number of specs are so far ahead. Like Outlaw is a melee with longer range and gigantic low skill passive cleave, coupled with godly output. It’s not like there are trade-offs here, there is no balance, some specs basically have it all.
Idk I like it.
I got a whole bunch of cool transmog, gear upgrades I get to slap Chromie in the face repeatedly (well, a version of it), I get to fight Grom or Lothar. What’s not to like? I even picked up Gorehowl.
You are accusing me of MDI fantasy when your claiming people are making comps with FOTM specs and CR and BL ect… ? For an 18 ?? And you don’t think that is weird ?
I have drums for BL. Dude, I said already. ANYONE can do an 18-20. Your average Joe with an Afly warlock or Timmy your little brother with his Belf Pala can do it too.
Yish, the other day I went with a healer friend of mine and she is a clicker with like 20 APM and still timed AD19… common… yeah sure, it was a chaotic run and far from smooth but timed and had a ton of fun. Thats what matters.
Its people like you that sweat over an 18 as if they are progressing some world first clear or something…
So… this is what I do when I make my 18s.
I wait at most 2 minutes, and from that list I get whoever has the most raider io. Whatever that may be. And if the addon raider io sais that they are an alt of a main with larger io, even better. Sometimes because they have a funny name.
And if YOU are not being chosen for pugs, its because even my alt Raider IO sais: Main 3.3k rating. So if we both end up in that 50 people list my warrior (Zavia-Uldum) will get chosen over you.
But that has nothing to do with spec… See where im going?
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Yeah no idea how that key is on like 25+ levels.
Guess everybody liked it. But at this point, complaining anywhere that 20s are too hard, any of the dungeons, it’s pure entitlement. It may be too hard for some players, but it’s not the dungeon’s fault, it’s purely the player’s fault. And some people at this point need to understand that end gear is, and should be gapped by the skill. If someone is not able to do 20s at this point in the game, maybe they should stop blaming the dungeon, and start learning how to actually press their buttons.
I also have an alt army, and I enjoy blasting through weeklies with my guildies, while we talk about the weather outside in the same time.
what rank 1 does has 0 impact on general experience of majority of playerbase
why ? because majority of playerbase will never be even close to pull sizes and speed of kills which r1 or even r 400 has.
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Your argument is hilariously tone-deaf because you assume people are not looking to make decent group comps for 18-22 keys, which by the way “ARE” high keys in the context of the game. People who play the game as a career and have multiple chars running M+ every day, progressing to 25+ keys are absolutely a tiny minority of no-life gamers and it’s almost entirely irrelevant to the larger discussion.
I honestly would love to see your take on the situation after you’ve given up on playing WoW as a career and have to get a job and pay bills, then you can be like “Oh whoa I don’t have time to run 36 M+ runs on 3 alts this week, maybe I can fit in 3 dungeons on thursday this week tho!”
This is nonsense to assume that average players who put in normal amounts of time investment are not skilled or do not care about their performance in-game. There were times I was parsing among the top players in the world in retail/classic, even if I’m not raiding with the absolute best people or playing the game like a full time job, I care about the performance.
I am not sitting here lacking the ability to play the game well, and just like those top players I’m going to get annihilated by a similarly skilled/geared player of a stronger spec, so how the hell is this not valid because you decided class balance is irrelevant if most players suck anyway? Because that’s what you’re trying to argue here, class balance doesn’t matter is what you’re saying.
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