My prediction for DF M+ (A disaster)

Community General Discussion
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So we now have new information on the M+ system

Blizzard on Mythic+ in Dragonflight - Dungeon Rewards Up to +20, Additional Valor Tier - Wowhead News

To get the best gear? You have to go all the way up to +20. To get to a +20? Well even harder, since scaling is increased after +11s.

This is my prediction for the M+ season in Dragon Flight. I hope I am wrong:

This new change is going to be a disaster for the game.

It is going to be S1 of BFA all over, except much worse. If you can not remember S1 of BFA. It was so difficult people just gave up on mythic +.

In DF with this system. Heroic guilds and lower Mythic guilds are going to have massive problems when one group of people can do +20s, and the rest of the guild can only do 12s.

Also just imagine the first weeks of Christmas it is going to be even worse. Guilds with members still getting used to their new rotations from the new talents and getting used to the new dungeons. Members who only have time for like 3-4 M+ dungeon runs every week. They are going to feel like they are falling massively behind their other guild members? Remind you of something? Yeah, AP.

This is going to be like Artifact Power on methamphetamine but with an element of stressful time-trial nastiness added to it. For raiding guilds this is basically going to be if the Artifact Power system was the movie Crank 2. Guild drama with casual members complaining they are not being brought to the pro players high keys and the high key pushing members complaining about having to carry the lazy dad and mom gamers who can only do m+ for a couple of hours on the weekend.

Also you think failing a key is toxic now? Well how do you think failing a key is going to be with this system. You don´t think I am going to check every single M+ run and all your logs if I bring you for a +19 pushing to a 20? Because no way am I going to risk failing a key like that. Not only this the mood in failed keys is going to be more foul than the inside of an orcs breeches.

With the success of Classic WoW, TBC Classic and maybe? WTLK Classic, you would think the lesson would be that players want achievable and easy content. Well lesson not learned. Raiding in S3 of Shadowlands was a complete disaster. People just give up when the content to get the best gear in the game seems unattainable. Legion had a fine symbiosis between M+ and Raids. It worked, and it was the most popular iteration of WoW since WTLK.

Again I really hope I am wrong, but I have little hope with a system that is clearly only designed to appease Mythic raiders (who at this point almost make out a minority within a minority of the WoW playerbase).

Lastly I know some of you will argue, well a lot of these problems are already there within the current system!! Well these changes will only exacerbate the issue.

EDIT

The cycle of constantly having new dungeons every time is going to be a huge problem as well. It is going to feel awful to not only master 8 new dungeons every 5 months, but having to master the routes and the new affix. Then feeling like all the knowledge was completely wasted when the new season comes along.

Compare this.

Learning 8 new bosses in a raid?

To learning 8 new dungeons, with around 3-4 bosses in each dungeon. Routes that depend on the weekly affixes. 9-10 different mob abilities with the ability to one-shot or whatever depending on how high you push. All the while learning a new affix that pretty much requires a WA.

Even on the beta it takes forever to take a tank, think about how it is going to get to have tanks to tank these completely new dungeons on retail, where players are considerably worse and the stakes of failing a key is much higher. Especially given how much toxicity is hurled towards tanks.

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M+ will now reward mythic raiding gear equivalent, those keys deserve to be extremely difficult.

This is a great change, finally us M+ players can progress our characters without needed to raid.

It’s meant to appeal to M+ players which is the majority of endgame population, raiding has been slowly dying ever since M+ was introduced

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It never made sense that 15s gave mythic tier loot. 5 people with the combined IQ of half a person could complete a key. You didn’t even have to time it which in itself is a pretty interesting design choice.

So now that the M+ players have to do actually difficult content to get gear that matches mythic raiding the screeching begins.

It’s meant to appeal to M+ players which is the majority of endgame population, raiding has been dying for a long time

This is just false. This is meant to appeal to the hardcore M+ population. Way more people may or may not run keys(i don’t have the data), but it’s because they’re easily accessible compared to normal/hc nevermind mythic. Chances are the average joe who is used to go into a weekly 15 to collect mythic tier gear will not be happy. I’m expecting a whole lot of threads on here and other websites in the upcoming days.

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Nothing should change for the +15 player, mobs will get +10% extra hp/dmg but hard affixes like necrotic will be gone which will make every week more consistent instead of having chill and push weeks.

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For a player who considers 15s to be their “endgame” the 10% hp/dmg buff per key level from 10 is a substantial increase. It’s like doing a key that’s a few level higher than an old 15. Sure, to people who actually do keys somewhat seriously whether it’s a 15 or 20 it doesn’t matter, but to them it surely will. Add on top of that the fact that the seasonal affix may not even have a positive side to it and you can see how it might change things.

Just overall, people are used to being handed easy high tier gear and this quite literally makes it harder to acquire high tier gear.

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you saw what they did with kara, what they do…it wont be hard

you think 20 is difficult? maybe the first or second week.

this will be a toxic sh*tshow :smiley:

its just sad that this fast food burger content isnt only the same level from shadowlands, but extended edition of gear acquisition for m+ groups/guilds (lol) and raider.

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you think 20 is difficult?

It hasn’t been hard since the first week of shadowlands, no and I never claimed they were hard. But considering the changes coming in DF the 20s will be comparatively way harder than they are now, multiple key levels. And the jump from live 20 key to 25 is substantial for a player who is used to playing in the 20ish range.

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15s were way too easy & rewarding, a blind alpaca using a wii controller could do them for max gear, by the second week you could have higher ilvl than HC, it totaly invalidated raids for alot of players, they took less effort & gave better gear

This change just brings m+ in line with raids & pvp, want the best gear, do harder content

Yes this will negatively impact all the weekly one & done players who are just after free max ilvl, but that does not stop them from doing keys more appropriate to their skill level, they will still get mythic gear from doing a 16, they just wont get max gear without working for it just like every other endgame loot path

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It’s a small difference since we get 8% increase per key (I think) so instead of being +160% it will be 170% which is 6.25% more actual value

And the main point is that it will still be easier than heroic raiding

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Not “a few” level, it basically changes a +15 into a +16.

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Well, to be frank i am ok with this change.
Until now M+ was a game mode that could compliment gearing from raid/pvp but not stand on its own cause its reward structure.

Players played just to get their “weeklies” and only a handful pushed. Now with this change, it might actually become one of the 3 pillars of the game (m+, raid, pvp). And by pillar I mean that it will provide its own reward structure.

Sorry but season 1 of BFA was more than fine. The only problem was that at the start they gave you a key from last week of Legion, so you could run like a +18 and spend 3 hours in there.
Other than that, they were new dungeons, with max rewards at level 10, so it was fine as a season.

It’s ok, guilds will adapt. As guilds do not force players to do both pvp and pve, they will adapt to NOT force players to push high keys. The gear discrepancy will only be temporary, since it will be even easier to now gear up from raids if you have players pushing m+.

No one is gonna start raiding before new year, apart from world first guilds.

Sorry but I think you are wrong here. Now there is toxicity cause if you fail a key, you lose the score and just leave the key (cause there is nothing else to gain). If they introduce rewards up to 20, even if you fail the timer on a 18, people are gonna be inclined to stay, cause they still want to get the rewards at the end, and get the weekly.

Speaking as a mythic raider myself, this could not be more wrong. This change is good for people that push HIGH KEYS. In raids we have people that only do their weeklies to keep up, and there is a good chance that they are NOT gonna bother pushing higher.
This only appeals to people pushing m+, as they will let them enjoy the game, without feeling FORCED to raid/pvp.

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Wtf are you on about, almost every single guild starts raiding the week the raid opens.

Of course the vast majority only kill a few bosses in their prefered difficulty but still.

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Blizzard believes that people dont raid because gear from M+ was easier… and now they believe that people will go back to raids… they must be prepared for another huge slap in the face when people quit game by masses…

They continue to be the same monkeys, they will never learn… i will not even get expansion if this stays as is…

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Raid is gonna release December 14, with all 3 difficulties available. Past raid releases that was the “heroic” week that guilds would spend learning the raid/gearing up. The following week would be the 21 of december, so yeah, I do not believe that many guilds will raid the week of Christmas.

Although you are right I have no statistics, and only talk cause all 3 guilds I know, are NOT gonna start real progress until the new year (talking about mythic progress), as most of the roster has vacations starting the 20th of december.

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as long as KSM isn’t changed, im ok with this change.

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The problem with raiding is they have failed to adapt. M+ is way better because it’s easier to set up. I think Blizz needs to change raiding. They should make mythic raiding like FFXIV where we can do a single boss with a pug on a 10 man scale. I think many more of us would do it or atleast try it.
FFXIV savage raids are great for this. They take no time at all to set up and it’s more manageable with a smaller raid size. You can actually tell who is messing up all the time.

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Guess blizz want to return raid or die, or play bis meta to get m+ 20 keys. (For PvE)

Sadly i dont have time for raids. Also dont have time to reach 8 dungeons from button to +20.

Seems df is done for me atm.

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Probably, but depends on tuning.

Overall, I like this change to the M+ end-of-run and vault changes. I expect that beating +20s will be a lot harder than now, and it will take most players much longer until they’re able to beat that level. Hopefully this will make heroic raid gear feel like it’s actually a useful part of progression. Currently, heroic raid loot is worthless, because most players are able to farm +15s consistently after 2-3 weeks.

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Meh…

“Wah wah, I have to play the game wah wah”

I know how we can make it better.

When you log in the first time you get given the achievement “Logged in” all the BIS gear and the title “the winner”.

Sounds great :slight_smile:

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M Plus has long felt mandatory to gear for raids as loot drops seem to have been sparse in comparison. This just makes it worse. I’m not someone who has ever enjoyed M plus and have only ever done it for the weekly chest which then became the vault. It changed from needing to do just one key a week to get your reward to having the chance to get multiple rewards and needing to do more to fill that.

For someone who enjoys M plus this is probably a positive change, for someone like me it’s just adding to my list of chores. I have friends who solely want to do M plus and don’t care about Raiding, though at times they feel they have to do some raiding to get their bis weapons or trinkets etc.

There will always be some players who are out of touch, they think because they find +20 easy that everyone will. There are far less people doing +20s than say +10s.

It’s funny I’m currently playing Wrath Classic while I’m waiting for DF and their gearing system just feels so much better as a raider. It’s a much simpler time though. There is just 10 and 25 man and two emblem collecting systems.

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