Mythic+ is harder content (emphasizing individually, because raids difficulty is measured by playerbase, meaning not even top guilds gather 20 people of the same skill and therefore wipe) and you are oneshot in 1 fail and 1 death can brick the key when it snowballs. Which depletes, taking way more time than just repull a boss.
Vault is not enough gear per time and is a huge gatekeeping.
Mythic Raid is neither the most popular nor the hardest PvE gamemode anymore and is behind a very strict, outdated ID system, that should also be removed.
When seeing M+ as a competitive PvE mode, then there shouldnt be huge discrepanices in gear and competitiveness should be decided by skill. Similar to how PvP gear is scaled to highest ilvl, gearing is ok for RPG experience, but not when it is about a competitive mode.
Regearing every season is not feasible for the majority of adult players and also leads to people with a life leaving the game because it drains too much time to get temporary better, still not reaching anything meaningful to compete with people where WoW is their job despite wanting to be competitive and this for only a maximum of 6 months?
Queues are so atrocious without a good MMR System, that M+ on its own takes so much time outside of actually playing the game, that there shouldnt be more and more steps to make playing harder.
To continue on 6. Mythic+ doesnt let you infinitely gear with M+ track gear then. Only 1% play 11+ keys atm. And the constraints to do so is also time. Queues are very restricted for most dps or non-meta specs and they cant just spam M+ like you could argue.
Reread 1-7 before commenting. With reading I mean actual reading comprehension.
M+ could need some Quality of Life.
This would also additionally include depletion and/or timer adjustments.
I disagree with almost everything you wrote about m+, but I agree on ONE thing:
Gearing through ONLY m+, is abit of a letdown because you are ONLY able to get myth track gear from the vault. Problem is that you CANNOT give it as end of dungeon rewards without any kind of limit.
I think there is space in the game for a way to get either some or at least a chance for a myth track item from m+. From mythic raid each player gets an average of 0.2 items per boss kill, and kills between 2-8 bosses per week (progressively through the season).
A system can be introduce that gives a similar amount of loot for m+, scaling from 1 item per 2 weeks to even 2 items per week, that drop as myth track.
If this kind of system creates problems for raids that make m+ pushing “mandatory” and increases the item rewards TOO much, the above item(s) that drop from m+ can be myth track ONLY in m+ (just like pvp ilvl works).
It doesnt truly matter if the 0.1% of players can get full mythic track gear from pushing keys because they have no similar constraints of time to the rest, so they also have more opportunities to get and use mythic track raid gear and use their premade of 0.1% WoW jobbers. For the whole playerbase below the 0.1%, the constraint of time, team finding, queue is limiting gear accessibility vastly.
reread or let chatgpt rewrite it in comprehensible words, dont know how to trivialize this more but logically you cant deny this
sure they will reach their limit faster, but they cant go beyond and they are fully geared already through mythic raiding in 3 weeks out. Everyone could have more opportunities to reach this too to be on a competitive baseline.
edit:
The goal IS that everybody has the OPPORTUNITY to reach maximum. Not being stuck. Even if, which isnt possible due to the constraints of keylevel, time etc., you could just endlessly farm it with ease, this IS the goal. You should have maximum end gear to compete anyway.
13-14s, first key per dungeon per week, untradeable, 0.5 patch onwards, timed only.
2/5 chance averages at 3.2 pieces of myth track loot per week, if you can do the content.
I’d point out that mythic raiding is 32 items across a minimum of 20 players, so half that rate on average, and requires having already cleared mythic ansurek to even be close to.
4/8M, a more reasonable approximation for the average mythic raider, would put their loot expectancy at four times less than what I proposed.
End game gearing in WoW in EVERY game mode relies on time gating by blizzard. PvP, raid, m+, EVERYTHING is timegated so that progress happens over time.
No matter how you rationalize it, there is 0% chance for a system to be introduced where people can spam m+ to gear unlimited myth track gear.
This is a very pessimistic and wrong approach. 0% in a game that already had challenger mode in MoP where gear was normalized. 0% in a game where just 1 product owner command changes this.
You want mythic loot more frequently and from easier content than it currently comes from. You didn’t even attempt to ask for parity.
In fact if we’re willing to make things a little more complicated we could elaborate on.
Say the first 2 different dungeons you time on 12 give you a 2/5 chance at a personal loot untradeable myth slot, then for the next 2 you have to do at least a 13, then the last 4 at least a 14.
That is a valid point. Always felt bad for alts to start late in patch for m+. Catchup system are never bad IMO.
I would be ok with even lower content in order to normalize it with mythic raid (I feel that 10-11s are somewhat close to early bosses in raid).
But I agree that the chance is abit high, maybe have the myth track drop for the first 2 item drops from dungeons per week. Since it starts at 0.5 it seems pretty ok to get that many.
U didnt read point 1. Invalidates any of your opinions about this topic, without even taking your lacking abilities into account to evaluate difficulty wrongly.
Idk I’d think someone doing both CE raiding and Title range mythic+ would be better qualified to discuss the differences in difficulty between the two. If we want to throw around credentials, which I don’t see the need for.
Would you be similarly on board with increasing the loot drops in mythic raids? Say doubling them to match the 2/5 chance given by mythic+?
But your first point is just factually wrong. First of all you group ALL mythic plus together and compare it vs ALL mythic raids. At different levels, the difficulty balance changes between the 2.
Example: at the moment CE is more difficult than 15s, but is less difficult than 17s (going by the number of kills/completed dungeons per difficulty). Generic statements comparing 2 game modes will almost always be wrong when trying to simplify 2 game modes.
There is no infinite scaling in mythic raid.
Therefore my point that M+ is harder than Raid is always true.
I just specified it on simple example to make it easier for people like you in a non-abstract way.
You guys are mathematically wrong. After you hit 620s the only upgrade comes from gilded crests, and the cap is enough to upgrade 1 mythic track drop per week (which you get from the vault) and craft one every two.
Even if you’d get 10 M items today, your ilvl wouldn’t change.
We are not saying something really different. You are just describing a single case.
You do not account for alts/players joining late into a patch where they have crests for multiple items, nor do you account for multiple bad vaults where no upgrade is available.
My point is comparing the raiding gearing path to m+ (my experience is mainly with gearing), and I concede that m+ after reaching 620 is on a really bad level.