I enjoy the dopamine carousel that is gear farming and would find it upsetting if they were to remove the gearing process. I think you would see the participation numbers wastly dropping for a lot of gamemodes if the gearing carrot wasnt there. Its a core part of the game.
Just wanna point out removing gear progression from mythic likely nukes the range of players capable of engaging with it. Right now outgearing content acts as soft nerfs, something the top 10 guilds could do at 620 might take even the top 100 625, top 300 630 etc.
Valid point and absolutely correct and this was already previously addressed:
A change like that also couldn’t just happen overnight and would need some careful planning because they’d need to adjust multiple things like
tuning the content for lower ilvl
acommodating the lack of better gear by introducing new rewards like very special CM-like tmog, mounts, weapon enchant effects, etc
make sure that RWF (even when I don’t care about it but it seems to generate money) doesn’t become too easy/fast.
But ultimately one could argue that the most challenging mode in a game shouldn’t be about “outgearing” bosses but purely about outskilling the content, at least for the second half of the raid.
Not every player needs to be able to clear Mythic Raids nor engage with it, which already isn’t the case anyways. The percentage of players doing actual mythic raiding already is rather low.
So when we talk about “reducing the range of players capable of engaging with the content”, we already got this very issue addressed by introducing 4 different difficulties for raids. LFR, Normal, Heroic, Mythic.
Now granted - I’m aware that there already is a shortage and has been for a long time, of potential mythic raiders and guilds having issues filling their rosters with players and changing the entire system could potentially worsen this situation but given how this situation already exists, the entire system might need an overhaul to begin with to make it more attractive for players to participate in it OR the barrier of entry might need to be reduced.
I don’t remember progressing an +11 for 3-4 weeks.
I think problem is mythic gear is too accessible atm , if this is the path they want to go they should bring back bullions / dinar system. That will fix everyones problem.
Current m+ season is suffering hard too. If you make something unfun no one will participate.
Problem is m+ shouldnt have given myth track in the first place. You guys really like seperating content and living in your own world. Pvp died the moment gearing became pvp only. We used to play everything in this game. Guild raid nights , Rbg nights , dungeon nights now people wants to focus a specific content while ignoring the rest… Thats not how mmorpgs work.
Opposite of this is someone coming late have to progress every raid tier or forced to buy a boost. This was what happened back in the day and it will happen again.
It is player created problem.
You have your own key , you can spam however you want…
Dw i did and it just looks like you feel entitled to get best gear in the game from doing easiest content.
Back when m+ got introduced Legion / Bfa m+ didnt even give myth track loot btw. Your weekly box gave an item equal to heroic ilvl. dungeons gave something around normal raid ilvl. That system worked completely fine , not everyone has to get best gear in the game and if they want that they need to put effort , this is an mmorpg. Wanting to ignore 80% of the game and wanting to get rewarded for it is just delusional.
Looking at the forums at least, people seem to be calm and accept that not everyone will be CE or mythic raid in general, not everyone will be gladiator and etc…all that sounds good and acceptable.
Yet for some weird notion the moment m+ is mentioned then we get some people screaming out of their lungs that everyone must be able to do a +10, everyone must be able to receive myth level rewards. So how come m+ is suddenly the exception?
There’s nothing sudden about it, in the past, people completed high end m+ to get gear better than the Heroic raid offers, in order to soft nerf the heroic last boss and make getting curve a realistic goal for them, they just want the same now.
Which I disagree with. Not everyone needs to be able to time +10s. Simply because +10s currently are the endgame for M+ from a gear progression point of view.
It’s not. I think most players have issues with that because of the key level squish. They used to time 16s, now they’re hardstuck at 7s or something, which probably feels INCREDIBLY frustrating.
What’s also not to be forgotten is that +16s, later +18s used to reward myth track vault. Myth track gear was more accesible to the average player. So TWW took those players a large part of their gearing progression away by locking myth track behind essentially +20s/21s (I mention 21s because having Forti+Tyra is new and provides an even bigger difficulty jump / the spell queue change also provides a significant increase in difficulty in comparison to previous seasons).
And honestly I can sympathize with that. I wouldn’t mind lower keys dropping myth track items because it doesn’t invadlidate anything I accomplished nor does it hinder my own performance.
I get that “best gear for best players” was always the notion of WoW but I just simply don’t understand the necessity of this. I find it rather silly tbh. I’d rather have really unique visual items for hard content rather than just more gear that will be irrelevant in a few weeks again.
He posted that a second before I sent my reply… so I’ll take this in my edit now. This is exactly what I mean. Blizzard took progression AWAY from the average player with the key level squish.
If you take something away, then expect people to complain.
And this is the root cause. M+ wasn’t considered a real end-game pillar but a simple “gear vendor”. Same as we have delves now - a gear vendor to anyone who can grasp the most basics of basics from their class.
Blizz just made m+ in line with other end-game pillars we got and the loot tourists lost their free shinnies.
The progression is still there. A +10 can be easily done IF you know at least your basic rotation and you have at least heard the concept of “Standing in fire is bad”. Ofc for those who where expecting to get free shinnies by simply breathing in the bosses’s direction for them to fall over…yeah. They are in for a rude awakening indeed.
As mentioned above. They can still do it but they can no longer get free end-game shinnies by watching neftlix on the other monitor and the boss just “kills himself” to shower them with loot.
And thus the complaining began, which was to be expected, no?
I would agree with this statement because +10s really aren’t that hard in my opinion but looking at how many people actually have timed all +10s, they do seem to be rather spicey for the average WoW player.
So you might not want to downplay the difficulty of +10s on a general basis even though they’re pretty easy to you.
Have you tried playing with players way below your skill level? Because I did (not by pugging) and the contrast was astounding. A lot of players have issues dodging stuff while maintaining their rotation, even to a mediocre level and even though they really really try and ask for help and even get semi-coached by more experienced players.
So yeah, a lot of people really can’t just still do them.
And thats why we got m+s on multiple levels. If a +9 is too hard then try a +7 or lower till you are comfortable enough. I am no CE raider yet me killing queen purely depends on whenever I get good enough for it or not…not when Blizzard will take “mercy” on me.
So if a person cant do a +10 for example then he either needs to improve or accept that level is beyond his skills.
Actually it would be cool if 11 gave mythic loot that only would work in M+ dungeons but in raids and open world it would be still hero.
That would solve all problems
I’m 100% on your side with this statement.
The thing just is that this wasn’t needed before and now is. So we go back to Blizzard taking something away from players they were used to have. This just causes dissatisfaction. Understandably so, if you ask me.
Sure. Getting off the free shinnies “needle” is difficult. Withdrawal hurts like a kebab indeed.
But it will make m+ something more than a free gear dispenser at least…
Quesiton is - is it a good idea to dissatisfy 98% of your playerbase in order to satisfy the top 2%? That’s a question I’m unable to answer, only time and numbers will tell.
Giving everyone free shinies will always be a crowd pleaser and anyone who takes them away will be “public enemy number 1” yet sometimes unpopular decisions are worth it for the long term health.
True but we could’ve also just said that back in TBC where we only had a single raid difficulty which caused people to complain which then ultimately lead to LFR, Normal, Heroic and Mythic and free shinies, less shiny shinies but still shinies.
Like I’ve said, I won’t judge the decision. We are going to see what these changes will bring and if they will stay or get reverted.
indeed.