Mythic 2000 Mount VS Rated PVP Mount

[Uda-uldum]

@Holybarryz-sylvanas

I wouldn’t say it’s even easy, doing +17s in 464+ gear in week 1 was not ‘easy’.
You put effort in, got a good reward, could use that reward to progress in other content.

Then why do you need a free tier set? Just kill the raid bosses and get it there. Because apparently Fyrakk heroic was “easy killable at 468 ilvl”

@Holybarryz-sylvanas

Heroic Fyrakk was easily killable at 468 itemlevel

So just why do the masochistic thing of doing a +17 in week 1? Just clear the heroic raid in week 1 and get it over with…

No. Im sorry. The reason people zerg M+ in week 1 is because its easier/more efficient than zerging HC. For most people of course.

You want 2 tier sets in week 1 of the patch? OK. Go and complain to blizz to make Tier sets more accessible within the content you do (raids). Dot get M+ mixed up in it.

@Holybarryz-sylvanas

So here is where you’re wrong.

This expansion, not including heroic Raszegeth which was a mythic boss in itself until week 10+ when it started to get nurfed.
But beside that, this has been the easiest raiding season and best tuned season for the majority of players (Normal / Heroic).

And where am I wrong here? I cleared HC raid (dont raid mythic) and 3500k rio. I know what I am talking about. I can guarantee that a +18 is as EZ as normal raid. Some dungeons are as easy as LFR raid on +17.

And you could argue that doing this stuff under-geared in week 1 is “challenging”. I was doing +22s on week 1. And the Heroic Raid as well.

I know.

And let me tell you, getting Mythic level gear from doing a +17 makes ZERO sense. You should be getting that gear on a +22/+24 (minimum).

But Blizzard cant. They cant make M+ enjoyers have a proper gear progression because raiders like you are argument that they want to zerg Mythic gear on week 1.

So no. They cant balance it. And its vice-versa as well. Because 90% of the time, the best weapons and trinkets by FAR come from the raid. Making me farm it and depend on RNG in order to do M+.

TLDR: You either did not understand me… or you completely ignore the issue.

@Holybarryz-sylvanas

You’re confusing two things together and it muddles your argument rather significantly.

1. Tuning and difficulty
2. Acquiring gear

Are two seperate issues, i’m surprised you didn’t throw in addons which is more tied to your core point then gearing.

Gearing should be appropriate for the difficulty you do. That is why you get Mythic gear in Mythic raid, heroic gear in heroic raids… ect…

M+ is in a weird position where its gear progression DEPENDS on a different game mode (Raids). And that is unfair. Why does MY experience have to be affected by YOUR experience? Its not fair.

@Holybarryz-sylvanas

They also do not want to, gearing faster / providing more options has had the most positive impact on player happiness and them wanting to do more content outside of their comfort zone.

Heroic guilds are more and more now doing early Mythic content, in part that is possible due to how they can over-gear that skill check, which they wouldn’t be able to do otherwise.

Not my problem. Raiding has not changed since 2004. Time to change it.

If Blizzard wants people to over-gear the raids, then they can give you Mythic gear in LFR for all I care. Or remove the weekly lock out. Dont know. Dont care.

But why does it have to be M+?

@Holybarryz-sylvanas

Let people play how they want to, let them gear how they want to, to face the challanges their up against.

There is literally no need to de-couple M+ and Raids, and typically the people who push for that distinction aren’t the ones actually pushing the content and actually play more casual, so the system actually benefits you the most.

I pushed to 3500 rio. Im SICK of zero gear progression because I am full 483 week 2 of the patch. Also, im SICK to the core of having OP trinkets and weapons from a game-mode I dont want to play.

S4 atleast has the Dinars. But im tired of bad M+ gear. Why? Because if it was any better, people simply would not raid. Because there would be no gear incentive to do so.

So its hypocritical point of view.

@Holybarryz-sylvanas

Don’t lump in every raider into this, it’s not at all the case.
There is a skill check, and gearing allows you to overcome that skill check.

Heroic can be cleared in gear that’s not even normal raid item level, it just means you really need to do mechanics and output.

Fights have gotten more complex, there is a lot going on mechanically, Raszegeth is a good example of what an over-tuned fight does to the heroic raiding community.
It was much harder to over-gear the mechanical check, because it was simply too punishing.

This isn’t about blizzard tuning content to Mythic gear, but blizzard making more complex and robust fights with punishing mechanics.
But to help bring people along, they make gearing easier, to face those challanges faster.

Raiding is the most accessible it has ever been, but also the fights are getting more mechanically punishing and complex.

I will lump every raider into this. ANY issues with raids (which there are) in Heroic, Mythic, or even LFR is NOT my problem.

Fix raiding. Dont get M+ into it.

[Keento-argent-dawn]

This topic sure is entertaining to read.

[Caleky-blackmoore]

@Necrofear-grim-batol

But like 99% of these hardcore pve players are completly horible in pvp.
When you attack them somewhere in open world they are completly lost they dont even know to press any button.
Probably panic attack.
In arena i dont see them at all.

Most pvp player suck just as much in pve

[Röcc-draenor]

Realistically, you are comparing things that aren’t at all comparable.

Closest comparison for a PvE version of Gladiator would be something like Cutting Edge maybe, in terms of skill and time requirement (again, not really comparable).

[Holybarryz-sylvanas]

Your prespective is a little flawed here, because M+ gearing can also effect PVP, likewise PVP gearing can effect Raids and M+.

Someone in my raid team got the season achievement by getting their PVP rating on day 3-4 and then used the seasonal reward for a PVE tier piece.

If you’re good at X content, you can use that as the easier way to gear.

I 100% support you wanting meaningful rewards for doing M+, but it doesn’t have to be decoupled from raids or pvp to achieve that.
More people who want to do M+ to help with their raiding experience, means more people queing and grouping for that content, makes atleast the forming of the group easier.

Otherwise you only re-create the issue of making content harder to access for the majority of the players who want to mix / match the content they do.

@Uda-uldum

I will lump every raider into this. ANY issues with raids (which there are) in Heroic, Mythic, or even LFR is NOT my problem

Sweet, then you’re not able to think along constructively for a meaningful conversation, so i’ll stop replying now.

As i don’t think you’re personally getting negatively affected at all from the current gearing construction, but i think you want to gate-keep it because you excel at one aspect of the game and want a way to show it.

[Necrofear-grim-batol]

@Caleky-blackmoore

Most pvp player suck just as much in pve

I agree
But pve wont make you better player overall
Pvp will, you gona learn your class.
Thats why this post glad mounts its all about its for prestigue players who know how to play their class and should stay that way as a reward for their knowledge and dedication in pvp community

[Uda-uldum]

@Holybarryz-sylvanas

Your prespective is a little flawed here, because M+ gearing can also effect PVP, likewise PVP gearing can effect Raids and M+.

It can affect. Im not saying its not. The PvP example you say is 100% true.

You had a friend that did PvP to begin with, and some raiding on the side.

Thing is… why isent everyone doing PvP to get their tier set? Because you get the “Heroic” version of it at an appropriate difficulty level in PvP. So long story short, most people aquire their PvE tier set through PvE because its easier than getting it through PvP.

Unless you are a PvP enjoyer to begin with (like your friend).

But dont forget : You can raid with PvP gear. You can PvP with raid gear. But you will be at a significant disadvantage if you do. And that is why people are not farming PvP/PvE in droves.

Its one of the things PvP enjoyers were complaining about for years. Having PvE farmers in arenas, and having to farm PvE for their PvP BiS gear. And now, that issue has been solved by divorce.

If you PvP, do it because you enjoy it. If you PvE, do it because you enjoy it. Or both (like your friend). But farming game modes you dont want to play is over. And to be honest, everyone is much happier that way.

Its time for M+ to get the same treatment.

@Holybarryz-sylvanas

I 100% support you wanting meaningful rewards for doing M+, but it doesn’t have to be decoupled from raids or pvp to achieve that.

It does ! Because what blizzard believes that gear progression in raids is what determines the gear progression in M+.

That does not happen in PvP. PvP gear progression is determined by PvP. Raid gear ilvl progression (internal) is determined by Raids.

@Holybarryz-sylvanas

More people who want to do M+ to help with their raiding experience, means more people queing and grouping for that content, makes atleast the forming of the group easier.

Groups for what exactly? For the weekly +20 to farm gear? Nah.

@Holybarryz-sylvanas

Otherwise you only re-create the issue of making content harder to access for the majority of the players who want to mix / match the content they do.

I did not say that. I said : Argue the “accessibility” of Raids by fixing things in Raids. We can argue “accessibility” of content in M+ by fixing stuff in M+.

I disagree with the idea of “lets fix accessibility in raids by changing stuff in M+”.

@Holybarryz-sylvanas

Sweet, then you’re not able to think along constructively for a meaningful conversation, so i’ll stop replying now.

As i don’t think you’re personally getting negatively affected at all from the current gearing construction, but i think you want to gate-keep it because you excel at one aspect of the game and want a way to show it.

You missinterpret me.

There is nothing I want to show. I want to have a constructive and meaningful conversation about rewards in M+ for those that push keys beyond a 20.

And the response I get is : “but in Raids this and that”… which is far from “constructive”.

Dungeons used to be the “pre-raid” content. Now, it has evolved to totally different game mode. Raiding should not factor into it.

[Caleky-blackmoore]

@Necrofear-grim-batol

Thats why this post glad mounts its all about its for prestigue players who know how to play their class and should stay that way as a reward for their knowledge and dedication in pvp community

well they definitely shouldnt touch glad mount but i would like a rework for M+ rewards.

I returned to the game last week and played some m+.
Till +20 there is a nice gear progression and some rewards for 2k or 2,5k rio and the portals.

But after that there is just nothing except to push score on a 3rd party website.

Also the Seasonal Achiev is kinda funny because it requires either Elite in PvP or 2,5k mythic score lolol

[Necrofear-grim-batol]

@Caleky-blackmoore

Also the Seasonal Achiev is kinda funny because it requires either Elite in PvP or 2,5k mythic score lolol

Its not that hard just keep practicing dont give up

[Deadguy-agamaggan]

The mistake you’re making is that you’re overvaluing high end PvP skill while severely undervaluing high end PvE skill. You can’t just go watch a raid boss or dungeon guide and start doing high end PvE content over night.

Killing pre-nerf mythic bosses and timing high level keys takes a ton more than just knowing what the mechanics are. You absolutely need to be on top of you class just as much as in PvP.

What I will give you is that I think PvP is harder than PvE, simply because the nature of PvP is that the better you are, the better your opponents are, which isn’t exclusive to WoW. But the gap between high end PvP and PvE is much smaller than you think. They’re just different kinds of skillsets.

You say that the extent of you “hardcore” PvE experience comes from a private server for a over a decade old expansion. If that’s the case, I’m sorry to tell you that you were never a hardcore PvE player in the first place and aren’t in a position to speak on what modern WoW hardcore PvE is like. It seems apparent from how you describe it that your knowledge on the topic is at best limited.

[Necrofear-grim-batol]

Say lvl10…

[Clarencew-tarren-mill]

Better?

[Caleky-blackmoore]

@Necrofear-grim-batol

Its not that hard just keep practicing dont give up

I didnt have an issue to get it dont worry. I just think the requirement is funny

[Necrofear-grim-batol]

Ofc they are better they are just not interested to kill npcs with fixed mechanics.

[Deadguy-agamaggan]

That’s not what I meant… you were complaining that I was posting from a level 10 character so I posted from my main. So, do you have anything to add?

[Necrofear-grim-batol]

Yea its funny its just reward for no life people so dont be worry if you dont get it

[Caleky-blackmoore]

@Necrofear-grim-batol

Yea its funny its just reward for no life people so dont be worry if you dont get it

?! i have it

Its funny because for the same achiev you either need elite or 2.5k rio which are not even remotely the same in difficulty

[Violetea-argent-dawn]

@Caleky-blackmoore

well they definitely shouldnt touch glad mount but i would like a rework for M+ rewards.

hopefully THIS season or never

[Jóóló-drakthul]

M+ rewards are horrible…
Mount and title and useless portals…
I would prefer cool mount cool title and instead of PORTALS some kind of specific weapon and TMOG you know that when someone looks at you he will google it and google will tell him he was playing DF season 2

[Violetea-argent-dawn]

8h portal, very common for blizzard to put unreasonable CD