Not belittling just feels like im discussing with people who either dont listen or refuse to. Mistjo and lynlia actually attempt to have a valid conversation even if we fundamentally disagree about certain points
Yes they do unlike you who makes trolly comments and snidey remarks constantly and you refuse to listen that the same idea the OP has spoke of has been talked about so many times before. Its bothersome spam and boring to have the forums filled up with so many of the same topic and people think they come up with new ideaâs.
Blizzard i will state again have given an official answer recently so this debate is moot.
Yes because blizzard has never changed their mind due to continued discussion. 
Keep doing the face palm its a show you have lost and nothing of note to say as it really displays that you have not read there comment at all else this debate would not be going.
I give you a clue well a couple actually. They are aware of it and working on it but its going to be some time. Now please stop with the facepalms does not suit you.
I hope you are sat there now thinking if only i had read there statement then i would have known its a work in progress, instead of lashing out at others with obtuse views.
I lashed out once in frustration. It happens. Covanants got changed because people kept talking about it but you want me to shut up because âtheyâre working on itâ. If the discussion comes up Iâm adding my thoughts. The forums might prefer to be one sided but thats not how this works
more than once but whatever.
Going to address any of my actual points or just attack me cos I got frustrated at people ignore my points?
already did but got greeted with facepalms by you so pointless trying to debate with a person like that, hardly an attack when you are the one dishing out the insults.
Having a guild and friends doesnât mean every key will be with them. I pug a lot but also run with guildies when I can. So not the solution plus this thread is specifically about pugging so you useless comments are just that
why pug when you can have safe keys with others in a community that are active 24/7 please think about it and stop with snidey comments getting boring now. it is a solution until blizzard brings out what they want.if you pug its your own risk when there are plenty of viable options , you can not hold other players to ransom.
All these that Puny linked are fun and friendly an active 24/7 there is no need to pug that is your own choice.Now i ask again stop being rude and think about it using logic before i report you next time.
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What stops you from simply re-seting the key after a minor mistake. Including kicking out players that dont play perfect.
Depleating keys is necessary.
And the whole point of M+ is to time it. Not to spend 2h wiping 60 times. That would be a raid, and there is a whole branch of PvE dedicated to it, so play that.
If anything, M+ keys should give 0 reward if untimed. No gear, no crests, no nothing.
What about rating? Forgot about the #1 reason people do keys.
Who cares about âa few seconds before last bossâ. What about at any moment for the stupidest of reasons, or 1st wipe.
And âslight inflationâ is an understatement.
Look.
All those suggestions are fine but overly complicated.
Depletion is a problem. But in previous posts it was suggested to : Buy key upgrades with crests. OR, give keys 2/3 charges.
In the case of leavers⌠well⌠I would be extremely surprised if someone gets 3 leavers in a row. Then I would really double down on the âits a you problemâ. I would consider it a solution for that.
No need for overly complex systems.
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Nothing. So this also solves the other request by players who want to be able to do test runs without risk.
And similarly to you having a list of players which you donât want in your keys for non-perfect play, the kicked players would also have a list of players who they will avoid grouping with because they kick. It works both ways, and both types of players will eventually be happy.
My system gives you the opportunity, but does not demand it, to continue on. You can still agree with your group to abandon a run if it seems to be untimed and there will be no harm to anyone. If the group does not agree on what the goal will be, itâs the same as now; albeit now there is one additional âviableâ goal.
And no, the argument that it will introduce the âdegenerateâ playstyle of waiting for lust for every pull is a non-issue. For one the amount of players with such patience and disposable time are less than 1 in a 1000, and for two if they want to spend 3 hours in a key just for that then let them have it. They will upgrade the key but not get any rating as explained below thank to your pointing out.
Good catch. No rating for non-timed completion. So players who just want to see the dungeon to its end without caring for the rating can do so, and players who care about the rating can abandon early if it doesnât go their way. Solved.
I suppose you have never found yourself in a group that kicked a low-dps or a healer who dealt very low dps right at the final boss because of elitism of the type âThey do not deserve the rewardsâ. I have multiple times throughout Shadowlands, and a friend of mine did in Dragonflight in an earlier season. That type of toxicity exists.
And yes, the inflation will be slight. The amount of players who would stay in a key when it doesnât seem to be timed are a subset of all players. And the amount of groups that would actually manage to complete such a key are an even smaller subset. For players who hit their âwallâ at low level keys theyâd manage to go about +2/+3 higher than now, and for high-end rtwf-style players probably +5 ⌠+10?
Buying key upgrades with crests is exploitable because crests can be earned by any activity. There would need to be a limiting factor to how high one can upgrade their key that way based on their M+ progress. Plus it also has the problem that since crests are a currency with a cap, you can find yourself in a place where you cannot upgrade it with crests because you hit the weekly cap.
Giving charges prevents a lot of the current issues only for the key holder, and it wouldnât eliminate the general toxicity (or I should call it selfishness). It doesnât solve the âtoxicityâ encountered by a player who joins a group advertised as âpush, bring fat deepsâ and encounters 4 flowersniffers. My system also solves that.
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I think some sort of penalty system could be experimented with. Like losing score/rating or having your maximum vault reward be 1 item level lower per leave.
Or Blizzard could consider additional incentives to finish the run regardless if it gets timed or not. Something juicy at the end.
or you can play better and stop trying to force others into carrying you.
you put together failed group ? then it naturaly fails and people leave.
end of story.
We have discussed this in previous posts.
The difference between a +10 and a +11 negligible. There is absolutely nothing to test.
There is no need to spend resources for a system that provides nothing of value.
2 Million weekly timed keys. Plus whatever million more untimed.
Keep that number in mind when you suggest having âlist of players that kickâ. How long would that list be? And how much time would you take to compile it?
Its not about a degenerate playstyle. Its about killing what makes M+ special.
M+ is a race. Its not a marathon.
Suggesting âtaking it chill and not timingâ is like suggesting doing Arenas with PvE NPCs.
Simply put, âtaking your timeâ is a raid. Go raid if that is the playstyle you want. In WW I heard 10 man raids are back. So do those.
So for all those that want to spend 3h in a key, my answer is : dont play M+. Play raids if that is what they wish.
And if raids are not accessible enough for those players, then go to the âraid forumsâ and complain there. But its not a good idea to ruin M+ because of itâŚ
They still can if they choose to do something 99% of people donât want to do. But then donât be surprised if nobody wants to spend 3h in a dungeon.
On the other hand, I would be surprised if someone joins a raid with the expectation of clearing the whole thing in 30 minutes without a single wipe, chaining trash pulls to mobs and such. Its the opposite example basically.
Idiots are an innevitability. But changing a system because of 1 incident that happens every moon is not a good idea.
And a system that incentivizes people to be idiots because its the most optimal to time keys⌠bad system too.
If you want to spend 2h every day doing WQ, +7s and mythic raiding to get the currency to upgrade the key⌠be my guestâŚ
But if you regularly play keys, after upgrading all the gear you are left with 100s of crests with nothing to do with them. You can use them to upgrade keys.
And if you want to upgrade your key to a +30⌠do it⌠then I wanna see you time it⌠
Charges and crests allows for 2nd chances⌠with out busting the M+ sceneâŚ
sure - if people who underperform suffer this too.
you do bad dps ? you loose rating
you fail at healing ? you loose rating.
you dont interupt ? you loose rating
im sure people like you would support this eh ? 
This ^
I joined a BH, I asked before key started, when they wanted lust, as I know some groups want them for giga pulls and some want them for bossesâŚ
No one responded⌠I asked again while everyone was doing the readycheck / food etc⌠Again, no one respondedâŚ
The tank did a big pull at start, so me being used to lust there, I did, we cleared it, no problem, no deaths, but THEN the grp leader went âOmg why did you lust there and not the boss?â
And started complaining, calling it trolling etc. even though people were saying âJust move on, doesnât matterâ, and when he kept on going, people started to leave
Yes, just go all in on the competitive aspect.
What is it lately with these posts? Do people really have a though and just canât help but put it out there without thinking or spending 5 seconds to look up if someoneâs had the same thought before them?
I beg, just go to google, type in âwow mythic+ leaversâ and youâll find hundreds of posts exactly like this. Itâs getting ridiculous at this point. Stop polluting the internet with this crap.
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You have 3-4 hours every night to play and you risk being locked out of the content you wanna do for half of that time doesnt sound bad to you?
true take a look at OneAzerothTV on youtube hes been a bdk main since bfa or SL making videos every season for hes own depletes and he makes videos weekly about key disbands he gets send in by viewers its a very common issue and they should 100% figure some punishment issue out though i dont see how the punishment issue wouldnt also be a negative thing for the good boys that keep trying