But when there will be punishments, people are just going to make coffee and never leave the group. This is discussed so many times 
The main issue is the timer element of M+ if people could still get their mounts/achievements and other stuff from M+ another way then this issue would be fixed.
The M+ timer part needs to go otherwise all it becomes is how fast can you nuke through a dungeon and really is that skill or just plenty of kiting + high dps.
I feel WoW is slowly becoming a âHow much DPS can you doâ game more than a game for people who arent too concerned about DPS but want to enjoy the game for what it is which is a MMO.
Blizzard are too busy trying to give everyone something to âshow offâ to people to indicate their artificial greatness which creates this toxicity of people who think they are superior in some way to others.
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Well if they go to make coffee and do not leave the group then the other group members can vote to remove which then applies the debuff to the player.
Sure this can be abused but ANY system can be abused, So you have to decide which is worse having a leaver ruin your key or the possibility of say âX Person is doing too little DPS lets vote to kickâ or some other BS reason that some people seem fit to try to kick people for.
a lot of guild do indeed try . but most fail .
why ? because every guild/raid group have their better and weaker members.
and it was only natural that those better players stick toghether - for example runing m+ only with each other . yes they will sometimes take someone else - but this often ends with not upgraded key etc . and a lot of peopel dont want to be nuisance who ruins keys for others - thats why they rather pug to ruin keys in group finder 
i know i do since im rather weak casual player but still want to get +8 and this week +10 done for weekly
and when âWeakerâ raiders ask for group you see nothing but dead silence .
in past peopel were at least farming ap so there was that - now ? people have literaly no reason to do keys below their targeted key level for weekly .
now all this could change if blizzard put back badges/vp into game - and let people farm it on lower difficulties. i bet a lot of people would rather do 10x+5 then 5x +10 for this currency . this would help with âboostingâ of weaker guildies.
lets see what Ion does in 9.1 to solve the pve loot disaster
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Grinding in dungeons My goodness no. And lower dungeons are definitely less fun than higher. 10x +5. Never.
its actually funny -because what i noticed is that even groups that have âweekly chilled run , not in timeâ in their description are rushing like crazy .
had this expeirence this week - joined such group thinking it will be chilled slow run - people will let me pull slowly and carefully - nope ⌠"pull more, pull more ,⌠if you dont pull more ill pull for you ⌠and⌠wipe on trash ⌠again and again " - even though they see i cant handle it - because they want to be done faster.
this rush mentality is extrely toxic .
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yet somehow people have no problem grinding in bgs for honor to upgrade conquest gear
proving your statement statisticaly incorrect
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That i did comp stomp for bote-essence to grind whatever currency, does not make me want to do that. People grind, but very often dont have fun. People are happy the Maw of Souls unlimited runs to grind AP is over.
Higher dungeons are more fun with a relaxed group but in a PUG group never⌠As there is always someone who wants to time it but I agree that the requirement to time keys is not really fun (Just multi pull and kite) or have super high dps to melt all the mobs before they can do lethal damage.
3 things can make or break the run .
DPS is too low you spend too much time killing trash (DPS Requirement)
Tank pulls too slow (Too much time inetween pulls)
Healer is not prepared for incoming damage (Results in deaths Out of time)
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I am not disagreeing. I responded on the idea of having to grind a lot of low M+ level dungeons to get a specific currency (badges). Which sounds like hell to me.
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sounds like content to do in game
but we all know people like you only want to log in - raid/high m+ - log out - instead playing game
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The solution to M+ pugging is impossible imo.
- People need to realize their own skill and play within that level
- People need to be geared for that level
- People need to accurately represent their skill level
Solve these 3 and M+ pugging will be super cool, but those 3 are impossible to solve.
- Nearly no one will admit that theyâre just not good enough for +2 or +7 or +10 or +15 and opt to play and improve at their own skill level, the amount of people that seek carries or just join while performing way less than the bare-minimum needed to finish the dungeon is too high.
Hunters with 2 interrupts for the entire dungeon, healers that refuse to do tactics, tanks that donât know how to kite, rogues with 3k dps in +15s etc etc.
- Nearly no one is appropriately geared to their own skill level besides the top players, especially with the current bad gearing system blizzard has implemented, this means some people are undergeared in comparison to their skill levels, while others overgear their skill levels, and in some cases massively.
With these gear discrepancies, some people may climb higher than their skill level while others may never reach their appropriate skill levels due to being undergeared ( hello M+ only players, I also enjoy being 215 ilvl and doing 1.5k more dps than that mythic 222 ilvl hunter and Iâm not even exaggerating )
- Speaks for itself, Just now Iâve depleted a +14 HoA because our mage did 3.4k dps overall, had 8 interrupts ( more than our warrior with 6 interrupts and hunter with a whooping 2 interrupts which seems to be the magic number for hunters ) and a healer that didnât know you have to take the circle to the impâs stone bodies on the 2nd boss.
All of these players were 1k+ rio and with over 15 timed +10s and above.
How is playing with friends not content? I indeed think that is way better than queue full time for low level dungeons to grind a currency.
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I would be real curious if a matchmaking system would help or be any beneficial to the current LFG. I gave up joining to random groups and usually form my group but itâs not a solution, this would not work if everyone thinks this way. Also, something has to be done to tanks, they get too much pressure imo.
and this is how we ended up with this utter failure of expansion that is not even pretending anymore then its mmorpg.
its atm hardcore instance symulator.
and thats why people left/are leaving game.
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random matchamaking would never work with how instance are tunned currently .
I could imagine it working to a certain extent, and we are not talking about 16-20+ levelsâŚ
Canât really fix the pugging system. The way m+ is designed makes it flawed for pugging, if you donât time a key you wonât bother seeing it out, so you leave instead. Blizzard has made failing to time a key too punishing. If you want less leavers they will need to make missing the timer less punishing. If you just try and force ppl to play together, players will just find new ways to exclude you.
I think if you want to make m+ more pug friendly, then keys should stay at the same level if you finish over time. Then it will only go down if you leave and reset the dungeon. This should make it feel like you arenât going to waste 40 mins (after spending an hour getting into a group) just because of one wipe.
The reduced gear drops exacerbate the issue, m+ is currently both unforgiving and unrewarding, so failure feels like a huge waste of time. Until they address this core problem there will be leavers, ragers etc.
Iâm having a lot of fun in m+, but itâs only because I play with friends/guildmates. I highly recommend anyone who does not like pugging to do the best they can to get more friends, join guilds, communities, discords etc. so they have a more reliable experience.
Then you ban them for griefing.
1 week on the bench, to meditate on how smart they really are vs how smart they think they are.
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Ive been doing nothing besides running my lowbie keys with 2 more friends all day , we list our group on the lists etc , normally we just need dps , some will even go afk when time is running , others stand in fire and expect to live it , one mage yesterday was asking to a moonkin to smoth the bears in the beggining of HOA, i told him to cc the master and body pull the bears to us , its no biggy i would overheal him and tank was ready to take his agroo , we just wanted to see his skill since he was talking like that to the duduâŚhe just left and downgrade our key , the smart ones have always elephant paws insted of fingers 
