thats just not true.
in dvelves im literlay showered by champions gear .
in m+ you get like 1 pirce out of 3-4 runs and its usualy junk you dont even need.
maybe its time to adjust the droprates in m+ to 1 piece for everyone for finishing the run .
And the good thing is, in M+ you get herotrack. With 40% chance per run.
The 603 champion gear is the nice initial step up to get into M+.
if you cannot clear 10s in 619 you wont clear them in 626 - the dps / hps / def gain from hundreds of hours of grind for crests is negligible at best.
i cant imagine anyone sane to run +8s for 2 months just to cap gilded without a single GV upgrade in this time to try to get mythci gear like month before season ends.
thats pure insanity in my eyes.
You describe only vault slots, but completely forget about crafting which perfectly serves as a catch-up system for alts. Ofc, you have some of your gear slots locked for set and trinkets, but other slots are perfect for crafted gear.
Yes, it require some crests farm, but itās achievable for many people and open access to legend 5/6 gear.
So the delves are a brute loot pinnata/gear vendor while m+ has been how it always been loot wise. Perhaps the problem with loot is somewhere else than m+?
Also unless you are āequipping anything which is an ilevel upgradeā 7 out of 10 vault rewards are also trash IF you are aiming for correct stats, bis trinkets and etc.
Exactly so we get stuff with 1 item every 2 weeks and 1 item everyweek at best.
Is it something you like ? Personnaly I really donāt.
Are you sub to do 8 DJ shore a week and thatās it ? Wasnāt it fun to farm item in m+ for you ? That was for me. The lack of incentive to play is boring, the only answer I have is they want us to stay sub longer so things are timegated.
Youāve been lucky if your vault has been good 3 times out of 10 
Iāve only had good vault items catalyst week, because I can choose literally any high ilevel item and make it a tier set upgrade.
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Wonāt claim that all those items where BIS but at least usable even if its a minor upgrade. 
If doing only M+ - yes.
Iām neutral about this. I just get used to it since itās the same system as it was in DF.
My main point was about catch-up system for alts that was not mentioned in 1st post. I personally donāt have any problems with access to legend gear since I also raid in mythic.
so what you say - if peopel want to progress they need to buy tokens to buy mats worth hundredso f thousands of gold per 1 craft ?
i mean if this is blizzard ay of forcing players to buy gold for progression ? they certainly succeded
Right now, weapon mats cost around 30k in total. Add around 5k to crafter or 0 if you have guildies or can craft it yourself. Donāt see any reason to buy token for this amount gold.
So if you want to catch up on 10 alts, it hurts, but itās not a problem to catch up on 1-2 alts after DF gold pinata.
Delves are completely irrelevant to the gearing conversation.
If delves didnt exist, people would be doing more low level M+ - yes. But the problem of people capping out progression with 619 gear would be exactly the same.
Gearing is too steep for the late game because of:
- Myth track being having incresed to 6/6
- GV myth track only from +10
- Gilded crests from +8
- Runed crafted only being 619, 17 ilvls worse than Gilded crafting, while it was only 10 ilvls worse in DF.
- Hero gear serves almost no purpose, when it caps out with runed crests at the same ilvl as champion gear.
The gearing progression is way too eksponentially steep because of the above and thats a terrible system.
This is the real issue here. Delves or M+2 and onwards could drop hero gear as baseline and it wouldnt change anything. The step from champ/hero to myth is too steep.
as iits likely meant to be.
its pretty obvious what blizz is trying to do - they want people to stop playing m+
m+ is meant to be hardcore tyrhard content while peopel who opt out are spammed with universal basic income hero gear for fooling around in wrold content.
they are meant to getto liek 615-619 and make choice - either they will utrla tryhard and do mythic raiding and then m+ or they will be happy with farming transmogfor rest of season .
if no big changes aredone to m+ in incoming month that means they are meant to wipe out anyone in between and leave m+ as pure challenging content
and its working - look what is happenign in m+ - majority of peopel are stopping playing alts and rerolling to purest meta specs only .
Oh for the love off. If everything is so bad, Blizzard is in league with the big corpos and āLizzardmenā to take over the world. There is no hope. Everything is evil.
Then just leave? Feels like all you do on the forums and spew on how āBlizzard is conspiring to steal your airā in every topic.
And you had actual dead keys. Like a key that literally asked you to run a dungeon for no reward, then run again.
The worst part about m+ gearing is the fact that all the chest, shoulder, head, hand and leg drops will be useless forever, because I will never replace my hero set pieces with them. The chance to receive useful items is way too small. There should be a token system, filter options or bad luck protection.
I have looted 4 chests and 2 legs yesterday. They automatically went into the garbage without even thinking about it. The treasure chest at the end of m+ feels like a trash bin most of the time. Opening treasure chests should feel amazing. Without Gilded Crests there would be zero motivation to keep doing m+ already.
I donāt know if this has been mentioned alreadyā¦ Butā¦ We are what 4 weeks into the season and youāre already saying itās too hard for ALTS to do +10s (Which was 20s in the old system)ā¦ Like come onā¦
People have flown so fast into keys, that they tend to forget where other people ended in the old system is where a lot of people start now.
How many ācasualā players do you know that were farming +20ās on alts?
I will repeatā¦ We almost JUST started the season and you already want to be able to farm the latest gear on alts
The casual players Iāve seen (so anecdotal) that complains about key levels, tend to forget that before they were doing around +15 for KSM, and now because itās called +5, they wonder why they canāt push +8ās
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ofc they want to do it on alts.
because thats how system now works.
if your character is not meant to do +10 and higher for mythic gv you have literaly 0 reason to run m+ at all.
you use your time much better spamming dvelves as rewards for literaly everything below +10 is exactly the same at 100 times lesss effort.
and boy oh boy are dvels so much mroe chill as tank and heal then m+ 
once peopel relaise that they are wasting their time on alts in m+ we will see like 90
% exodus from m+
theo nly thing keeping people now is desperation and delusion that they will reach +10s eventually.
give them time to realise they wont and they will realise they only wasted time in m+ if they never reached +10s because entry barrier there will soon be 630+ or gtfo
Sofar most people fails on the basics:
Yesterday my +10 dawnbreaker broke by a paladin who thought his job is facesoaking the 1st boss beam 2 times in a row. Ofc he blamed his computer is crap (like why come m+ if your computer is trash).
Today went 3 of this dungeon, and people just keep ninjapulling more trash on 2nd miniboss and fail aim the orb.
now how many hours did you spend doing that ?
how many hours will it take you to get to +10 again and then pray so this doesnt repeat itself
how many hours will it take oyu to fill even 4 gv slots.
and then imagine you will get garbage in them .
and then ask yourself - was it worth it ?