I would say, keep as it is with 1 small difference, when queing in RDF let them choose between Classic Dungeons and BfA Dungeons. That way, if the new player is having trouble in BfA Dungeons he can just switch to the simpler Classic Dungeons.
3 Likes
Until you get dire maul and everyone just leaves constantly. What could have been done in like 20 minutes turns into 1 hour+ run because people get lost, leave and then new people join and get lost and leave etc.
1 Like
Fair enough. Classic dungeons aren’t all peach, but you get what I meant.
Agree.
Yes.
It’s funny that players that advocate for harder content are usually the ones that segregate players from their groups.
I can tell by my own experience that if I am struggling in dungeons than I am off to quest outside and never look to dungeon runs again.
That was my experience in my UK account after a miserable run on DM on my level 44 BE Hunter. We spent hours trying to get that dungeon in steroids done on the first day BFA pre-patch came just to have to give up on the final boss, due to being unable to take that boss down before our tank died.
Needless to say I picked up the BFA boost, start playing on my BE Paladin and never look back at anything dungeon related for months, the only time I remember queueing for a Dungeon was when I needed to do the quest from Vol’Jin.
By that time I largely outgeared the dungeon I was doing.
Cheers.
6 Likes
One of the problems in WoW (pre the pre patch) was the fact that most of the lower level dungeons offered very little challenge and then you got to the latest expansion dungeons and lots of QQ and complaining because everything was ‘over tuned’.
Sending players straight into the deep end is (IMO) a good thing and prepares the players for the actual end game stuff.
1 Like
So you think the ideal introductory algebra class would start with the Navier-Stokes equations? and Med school 101 should start with organ transplants?
No. I don’t agree. People thrown into content for which they are not ready learn nothing.
I’ve dealt with several new players having various problems with BfA. This is one of them. People aren’t born knowing the specific mechanics that Blizzard devs favour. They aren’t even born knowing what a Tank is. It’s confusing enough just to be teleported through a loading screen you don’t expect, into an area you don’t recognise, without adding the complications of BfA dungeons. There is all the difference in the world between Ragefire and Atal.
3 Likes
The gaming community has changed and is a lot more competent than it was 16 years ago.
I think most new players can handle BFA content and its difficulty is comparable to how Vanilla was for us when we started.
Not to mention that BfA is more in tune with modern WoW than old expansions.
It’s more like people are too afraid to say hey im a new player can you let me know what to do if theres something special? I wouldnt mind telling people what needs to be done mechanical wise if they just bravely admit they dont know but ive seen new people get yelled at for not knowing what to do which i really hate.
We were all new at one point and clueless lets not be jerks and just help people out 
What better way to help newbies out to tell them 1 simple mechanic so they acctually get thought a thing.
These people whom just kick people during leveling phase of dungeaneering are a disgrace fyi.
]I got kicked because I dont know how properly play 1 class… at lvl 28. And you know how fast leveling is to 50 compared to what we had to 120.
2 Likes
I disagree on the dungeon part. Dont get me wrong, I think new players not having the ability to choose in which expansion they would like to level is a bad move, BfA had one of the worst zones and stories to level in, some where good imo opinion but overall they were boring and the mob dencity was way too wack.
That said I think the dungeons should provide some challange and punishing mechanics, sure its a bit unfair if you go into a dungeon thats very interupt heavy and you still dont have your interupt but thats on Blizzard to reabjust when you get certain spells for a handfull of the classes. Wiping and not just steamrolling the dungeon imo provides a better expirience and actually makes you pay attention. I did not learn how to play my warlock by just deleting BRD, i learned by doing M+ and Raiding, by trial and error. Rotation is not the be all and end all to mastering the class you need to understand what your abilities do how and when to utilise them, and the more mechanicly focused dungeons imo provide that incentive. Will leveling trough BfA dungeons make you a pro warrior - no, however it will probably teach you that interupt is important. You have no idea how many people dont use them, hell there are even people in max level heroic dungeons that do not know they even have an interupt or a CC.
This^
Over the course of the prepatch i leveled all 12 classes again because i am moving server and like to have each class available just in case. From all 12 characters I encountered many of the newbz, sure they were hot garbage, one guy even blamed me for “bad tanking” because he wasnt dodging a breath mechanic on a dragon boss (Dresaron DhT), just told him “dont stay next to the tank and dodge the breath you baboon”, however there was one guy in my many runs that actually had the balls to say he hasnt been in the dungeon (BrH) and needs some help, the whole group was really nice to the guy and was explaining tactics to him, sure there were wipes but people didnt flame him or anything. At one point the guy even asked me to take up the tank role because he didnt want to slow the group further and also tough it would be better for him to see the mechanics from the backseat as a dps.
So yeah TLDR if you are new, just say you are new. People will kick you because they expect for you to have XP and will just think you are bad, if you say you are new you will get help and a more possitive expirience.
2 Likes
This issue is some people really don’t like playing with new players, and risk being kicked from the group or otherwise flamed by someone with more experience. So I can understand their silence on this.
It’s pretty obvious when someone doesn’t know what to do on certain boss fights though. When I come across this, I’ll usually type a quick reminder to the group as a whole to avoid X, or interrupt Y.
3 Likes
Hasn’t been this way from what i have seen over the years. sure my example was from pre-patch, but i have seen many people actually say they are new and want help. I have never seen a negative reaction after that, it has always been met with help and understanding.
I will say this: if people are not interested in using their interrupt, they won’t use it regardless of the dungeon difficulty.
If they can’t/won’t use all their toolkit, because they prefer the easy way, that won’t change just because the dungeon is more difficult.
If the group wipes they will not say:“Sorry guys, it’s totally my fault for not interrupting”.
They will probably say:“Stupid noobs L2P”.
I had plenty of that when they decided to jack up the difficulty in TW.
Easy dungeons are a good way to learn if you are willing to.
Otherwise there wouldn’t be a need for target dummies, in Ogrimmar/Stormwind for people to train.
Who wants to spend hours hitting the easiest target in the world, right ?
I can say I learned to play my class in easy dungeons and improved in TW.
Easy than medium than hard.
When people say:
“We should help new players”.
They are a bit out of touch with the pug environment.
Usually pugs are not tolerant with new players and that’s why making them go through BFA content is not a good idea.
We are not in Vanilla period anymore.
Where people would come out empty handed after failing a dungeon.
Game has changed.
It’s not the leveling experience anymore is about the latest expansion content.
Cheers.
When we talk about people saying they are new and want help, its different then people whom say they are new but would rather experience something themselves.
Also, in LFD it hapopens much less then in LFR
LFR I see it plenty of times:
New player 1,2,5 are new and state they are new.
You usually have 1 or 2 people (if your like me added to the ignore list) cause they decide these new players hold people back on mechanics, when all said person has to to do is assign said people to roles and explain theyr roles in a fight thats about controlling the situation rather then actually dps checks.
“We should help new players”.
They are a bit out of touch with the pug environment.
Usually pugs are not tolerant with new players and that’s why making them go through BFA content is not a good idea.
I am going to state that match making is not pugging. Pugging is premades. This topic is not about pugging. This topic is about the LFD founder.
My bad.
I meant LFD and TW.
Forgot that pugging is Mithic + scenario.
Cheers.
The mechanics or the players?
So the real underlying problem is that your progression is tied to other players.
I ahve not come across someone say “i want to expirience something…”, however i can see why people would kick them. Its harsh but you have to understand that the influx of new players is minimal and the game is overall filled with veterans who have seen these dungeons and would rather not wipe on trivial bosses because someone wants to spend time and figure out the things by themselves instead of just asking whats going on.
LFR is whole different beast. Its a failed experiment where you will have a very unhealthy mix of newbies and veterans. Lets disect teh problem, starting with veterans are somewhat inseentivised into LFR, previously for tier sets and in 8.3 for essenses and corruption currency (im not saying that was optimal but i saw alot of people going the LRF routhe), now these players know what a joke LFR is and cannot be really bothered with other people, also the newbies in LFR are just… I mean cmon you have a big shiny button at the center of your screen and a sanity bar how hard is it to press when the bar is near empty.
Problem No2 with LFR its discustingly easy and incentivises people that dont want to raid to raid. So many people really do care about that quest that wants you to kill 1x Lich King due to completionist reasons, but they really dont care about raiding and would rather just go in there ignore mechanics and hope that the boss dies fast.
I get why some people like LFR, be the wing structure of it or their inability to join a raiding guild due to IRL schedules and what not, however there must be better solution to this issue and Blizzard have failed to come up with one.
Overall the key issue with LFR is that you mix 2 types of people from opposite spectrums and opposite expectations. It really was the same in BGs in BfA where people went in because of BotE not because they wanted to PvP, I was in the same boat as those people i dont like PvP and could care less about it, however even i knew that you had to stand in the pool thing with the balls in the MoP BG. This is really an ongoing problem with WoW that Blizzard are refusing to adress (we are seeing it in SL aswell), people feel forced into content they do not wish to participate in due to good rewards. Sure have an incentive for people to try new things but dont force people that know they dont like a certain content to participate in it constantly due to BiS ring or whatever.
There’s many types of players, but to make it simple:
- There are the ones willing to improve.
- There are the ones that are not willing to improve.
The first ones, will always try their best in any scenario: LFD, LFR, Mithics, Raiding.
The second category will never learn because they are not willing to.
They will AFK most of the times, complain about others, won’t use their interrupt, because it’s others fault, find their way to get carried to higher content.
I don’t think the developers can design a system around this. Because both spectrums play together.
The game wouldn’t need a kick system if everyone was trustworthy.
Unfortunately that’s not what happens.
Cheers.
The should have a newbie friendly system to teach u the skills or some of the game mechanics :
For example once every 10 lvl’s an npc summons you , the monk has something similar but it’s to simple .
2 Likes
But the post is about new players. New players who are not taught in Exile’s Reach what Interrupts and Dispels are, and yet are thrown into Dungeons where these can make or break a run given their design. Specializations do not even need to start with having an Interrupt in their toolkit before level 20.