I really don’t want to play ret paladin like it is in next expansion and i hoped that this trees will make me change it completely to something new and interesting…with few new spells to explore and learn and build new things
same with balance druid.
since BFA release classes are the same
where are the changes? where are the new spells (not talking about covenant cause they didn’t even fit the class theme? why am i stuck with the same rotation since wotlk on ret paladin? the only thing changed from wotlk till now was that paladion got holy power other then that you do the same thing al the time
why is it that balance druid DoTs are no longer good like they were in MOP or legion?
and if you think this is just PRE alpha and they will change something
you are so high on copium
This what you see is what you will have in next expansion
cause as someone here pointed out have no TALENT
did you not notice that instead of bringing some big and interesting changes they are doing the same thing every expansion?? cause it’s save and for the same crowd?
All of you will wake up soon or later
cause like this needs to stop already lying and pretending and people eating that crap…
It’s almost like single target shouldn’t be pitted against aoe damage, and aoe damage options should be pitted with aoe damage options and st damage options with st damage options.
kind of like how good talent row design works.
It’s honestly stupid the length people will go with their mental gymnastics to go and say that this is good and you will have a lot of choice when the truth is you’re not.
You’re going to have less, and if you want to feel “complete”, well, tough luck. You’re gonna specialize in one aspect of your spec and you’re gonna bloody like it, or else…
Again, a true choice wouldd be for example for feral to choose completely whether they want to forgo bleeds in favour of ferocious bite centered gameplay and vice versa, unholy being able to focus on pets or dots, priest being able to choose to go full voidform or classic shaddow style, etc. Those by definition would be choices. You still make the same damage as before, you just choose how you deal that damage. In theory.
But, doing that is actually hard because you have to balance specs within specs and make new abilities and talents for each of them which is a whole lot harder than taking the exact same classes as we currently have, spread and sprinkle them in a talent tree and let the players figure out while repeatedly saying “it’s a choice”.
I haven’t missed it it just doesn’t prove anything. May I ask why you think getting to your current baseline abilities is the desired goal? You can be better than that now. I’ve yet to see a single high end blood dk player say that they don’t like the new trees. Just don’t waste points into some unnecessary stuff.
Did I mention anywhere that it was the optimal build? No I said what I will run. Might be a crazy concept but you are allowed to make your own builds and still perform without just copy them off of a website.
In the pictures you included it has:
2 balance abilities that I said are bugged on the website (serious man just read)
3 points into defensive abilities I find really good but you could do without
3 points to get a decurse which I’m tired of saying this but I wrote that I wouldn’t take if it was a dungeon with no important curses. Man reading these days…
So in total 2 points which you get baseline and 2 points you have to set for basic abilites. Oh noes! You are right we no choices! Those 2 points!!!
Are you mad? I have an entire build where I don’t take Berserk at all only focusing on bleeds. Another with pure single target and one hybrid for the two. Do you know what feral talents look like right now?
I gave you a direct number with 28 must-pick choices that you ignored to show pictures of 2 of those and then went on about your 80% number. Let me tell you mate but 28/61 is not 80%
Actually I got time so let me break this down for you.
Required talents as a feral:
Rip, Swipe, 2xFeline Swiftness, Primal Fury, Soothe, Wild Charge, Tiger’s Fury, Omen of Clarity, Sabertooth/Predator, 2x Improved Shred and Swipe, 3x Taste of Blood/Sudden Ambush, Primal Wrath/Brutal Slash, Infected Wounds, 2x Eye of Fearful Symmetry, Convoke the Spirits.
Some of those might not be mandatory but they are likely too good to pass up on. Could depend on the balancing. That comes up to 20 points actually, 23 if you need a decurse, 27 if you want decurse and interrupt. Everything else you should be able to spend as you like or around to unlock the next tier of talents. That’s 41 to 34 points of choice.
This for me is one of the main benefits of this new tree, even if in DF we aren’t massively different from now (although I am hoping for some new choices and playstyles). These new trees give us time, so maybe 11.0 will be much better than otherwise. They won’t spend an entire year trying (and failing or partially succeeding) to balance their latest greatest borrowed power system and then ditch it for the next latest greatest system. This is the start of trying to get back to a way of introducing power and choices around that power.
You have 11 talents there that you can take for blood, comparing to the 7 on live.
You get 4 more talents…
Idk what’s hard to see here, did you even play with the talent calculator??
And no, the Unholy DK is going to have more choices than it has now.
For example you can get more talent, wow…
1st row - Infected Claws AND All Will Serve AND Clawing Shadows at the same time.
2nd row - (Bursting Sores OR Ebon Fever) AND Unholy Blight
3rd row - (Grip of the Dead OR Death’s Reach) AND Asphyxiate
4th row - Pestilent Pustules <<< or get >>> Harbinger AND Soul Reaper
5th row - Spell Eater(buffed as Anti-Magic Barrier) AND Wraith Walk AND Death Pact
6th row - Pestilence AND (Unholy Pact OR Defile)
7th Row - Army of the Dead OR Summon Gargoyle OR Unholy Assault
As demonstrated here: https://mythictrap.com/dragonflights-talents?c254=5mygwl_jf9flx_hwsl&c252=noalxx_nlzkm8_4
So i can have more talents than on live, on live i can get 7 talents out of the 7 rows.
In DF i can get… if i want, i could put points somewhere else, a total of:
1st row - 3
2nd row - 2
3rd row - 2
4th row - 2
5th row - 3
6th row - 2
7th row - 1
A total of 15 talents.
You can change the talents and get other stuff ofc, that’s the point of them.
You’ll be sacrificing some things, to get others.
That’s the point, you can basically double the live talents you can get.
There’s not gameplay change from that? You have to be in serious denial at this point to attest that.
I gave you the talent tree used, feel free to look through it and see that you can get all of those, if you chose. You can customize your own damned gameplay more than you can now, and that’s the point of the new trees.
Salty much?
You’re getting more than you have now.
Look at the above, with the new tree you can double the amount of talents that you currently have.
You can also take some stuff from Holy or Prot for yourself.
And this is just the first iteration of the trees.
We’ll get legos, covenants, tier sets, etc in the trees to chose what we want.
You can get double of the things you have now in some cases.
Divine Toll + Vanquishers Hammer for example.
Or Final Verdict and Mad Paragon legos?
Who knows… we’ll have to wait and see our options.
But what’s clear at this point, is that the new trees offer more than the old ones.
I proved that already in this post where i showed how much you can pick with the points given.
By definition, if I want to pick all the stuff I want from SL, I should be able to, and I should have plenty left to pick whatever else I want. But I can’t. So, it’s false advertising.
It is prune, word on word.
Doesn’t matter what you say! You posted those pictures, not me. You are showcasing you are going down the exact same path, save for 2-3 changes as per your own words here with the deviations.
You are showcasing the exact problem I have been saying all this time. You don’t have any choices- You showcase it on your own 4 examples. Your build is 80% the exact same on the class talent tree, with the only changes ever coming in the side of the feral talent tree, which doesn’t matter because your rotation’s still gonna remain the same as it is now and because there is no argument why those choices shouldn’t be just baseline, as most of them already are.
Ok since you insist, here you go:
Yeah lol, massive changes here! Huge difference between the pictures (not). If i looked quickly through those I could see -barely- any differences, save for a few abilities at the bottom end of the tree and the kick.
I like how you never went down the moonkin form path, curious! It’s almost like that choice was already made for you.
Now, the spec tree, on the other hand, you make a lot of changes:
But, again: That doesn’t matter. Because why should you have to choose between single target and aoe damage? You haven’t had to choose that for, what, since vanilla?
In what situation is it better to make you choose what you currently have baseline and which seemingly hasn’t been a problem for you for the last 18+ years, but now it suddenly is somehow magically better?
Because obviously, if completely forgoing aoe damage in order to maximize your ST damage for different bosses where it is necessary, then that choice doesn’t matter anyway because you’re going to go with the most effective one anyway. Instead of, you know, having those abilities at the ready and Blizzard forcing you to actually make choices within your toolkit and rotating your rotation perfect to get the best results.
So, as I said before: Thank you for proving me correct.
No, if you want the exact same amount of baseline abilities in the blood tree, as I showcased, you are left with 3 choices.
Yes, theoretically, but again, those choices are made for you.
You can’t choose to have no pet as an unholy DK, for example.
Ah yes, I totally see a situation where you will forgo all the abilities that boost your damage in practise to in theory have more of talent choices. Because as you told us yourself, it is a great asset that you are able to make wrong choices, that’s something that really improves the player experience, no?
Could you instead answer the question as to why should I be thankful for more choices when I used to have way more of it baseline in the first place?
This is such a low energy cope post, lol.
Leaving you with a grand total of 3 choices in a tree of 30, yes, thank you for demonstrating that the number 3 is indeed smaller than 7.
Yeah, you are right. Instead, they are gonna throw the problem for the players to solve instead of designing interesting classes on their own, and spend the subsequent months designing another store mount, dragon models to ride and/or animations. Maybe a heritage armor and a few encounters.
Out of sight, out of mind, etc. Blizzard hates to discuss class balance and design since legion because they’re so god awful at it.
If you want to stay the same, you have that option.
Who tf is making choices if i have an interrupt or not?
Or if i have Sanctified Wrath of Final Reckoning? Or Crusade?
And i can’t chose not to have Templar’s Verdict.
You have choices to make, you can’t have control over the amount of choices or how big they are.
No, you can’t chose to have a feral druid pet as an Unholy DK either.
You can chose whatever talents you like best, sometimes they will coincide with being the best options, other times they won’t.
What way more did you have baseline? What are you losing now?
You’ll be ending up with more stuff once you fill out the tree.
And if you’re comparing what you had in Mop or some crap… i really don’t care.
We’re going from SL to DF.
It’s evident that it’s the opposite, since you know… there is this thing called a talent calculator and if you fill it up with the points given, you end up with more than you have now. https://mythictrap.com/dragonflights-talents
Yes, I have the option to have 3 choices instead of the 7 i currently have, lol.
Blizzard, because Blizzard can’t even balance classes now when they are shoehorned to a single build, do you genuinely expect them to be able to balance all these other builds? What proof do you have of the opposite being true? Hope?
Yeah, exactly!
Almost like they’re no choices at all!
So in other words they’re no choices at all but false choices masquerading as choices.
What is this hyperbole? Are you saying that a pet class like UH dk having an option to focus more down that path is equally suspended in disbelief as having an another class, an another player, as their permanent pet?
what are these arguments even lol
AKA you will choose what is best anyway and your theoretical “B-b-but you have all these choices to make!” won’t actually matter because nobody will ever make them in any practical situation, thanks for clarifying that.
SL class design is miles ahead both legion and BFA but it is still complete dirt compared to even WoD, let alone MoP.
So, again- I am asking you, why should I be thankful and/or glad for having less than what I have had baseline anyway in the past?
If you told this person water is wet he’d ask you for a peer reviewed study that it is in fact so.
My god man I don’t want to keep doing this but please… READ. In the picture you posted Blizzard never says that you won’t be pruned. They say you shouldn’t feel like it because you are getting a ton of other stuff. It doesn’t prove your point,
It matters because I also wrote that context on the pictures. I told you all of that before yet you took 4 picture where you prove I take 2 mandatory talents as some big brain move.
My raid build and m+ differ by 25% because it’s my build and I like defensive stuff. It doesn’t mean you have to take those talents. It would differ by 35% if it wasn’t a curse dungeon. Currently in retail my raid and m+ build differ by a single talent, so a 14% difference. On my mage, not a single one.
My dude… Nevermind I won’t mention your reading abilities anymore.
You do that right now on most specs. Like… Do you play the game?
Before I didn’t have an option. For example you can see I never take maim anywhere because it’s just useless for most content. Especially with incap roar now in m+. Same goes for Skull bash in some raid fights.
No that’s counting both trees. I DID THE MATH FOR YOU AT THE END OF THAT PARAGRAPH!! I’m done if all you want to do is misinterpret what is told to you and ignore points whenever it benefits you. The new trees offer you choice and build diversity. That’s a fact. There are improvements that can be made but it’s the best system Blizzard has presented since mists.
The whole thing is made for a minority of player base who has a nostalgia of old classic trees, but totally forget how awful they were.
It is clearly another 1 expansion temporary system designed for dragonflight’s level 70 chars (talent points).
In future expansion, when we get more levels and talent points, it will inevitably become bloated and meaningless, when this kind of tree are expanded unlimitedly, the same reason why it failed before and was removed.
Those people just have short memory. And it is not surprising at all that Blizzard is running in circles and repeating the same mistakes again and again.
How the hell do you have 3 choices instead of 7??
You already take more than 7 talents EASILY.
What proof do you have that they can balance anything?
Any form that you want?
Oh yeah, you got nothing.
That’s so stupid, play Prot if you don’t want Templar’s Verdict, play Frost if you don’t want permanent ghoul. OR I COULD SAY THAT, OR I CAN SAY DON’T GO ON THE RIGHT SIDE AND YOU’LL HAVE NO GHOUL BECAUSE YOU HAVE THAT CHOICE.
I hope it’s clear to you that you don’t know what you’re talking about.
You can forgo the ghoul along with other stuff for Unholy. https://mythictrap.com/dragonflights-talents?c254=5mygwl_jf9flx_hwsl&c252=mi6n7l_-zcm1kn_5
Oh look, no ghoul build, mix and match how you like now.
Sounds like you don’t want any talent tree. CAUSE THERE WILL ALWAYS BE A META.
I don’t give a damn if others follow the meta or not.
If you do, it’s your business.
You have classic for the past, wait a few years and it’ll go to your precious MoP.
You don’t belong in this thread, you belong in Classic.
Dude, you didn’t even use that talent calculator to make a build and then compare it to what you have on live.
Your opinion is irrelevant until you do that.
Such a silly claim.
It has nothing to do specific points. The whole tree systems were a reused and failed system.
You don’t need to eat shiiit to know it tastes bad.
