Only in MinMaxxed ultra optimised content. mainly Mythic Raiding.
I don’t PVP but I bet there could be some fun viable hybrid builds that offer some survivablity that might be good.
Certainly out in open world content like questing having a tank spec with added DPS to sped up killing mobs or a DPS spec with some healing / tanking talents to add some survivabiltiy can be fun.
I don’t M+ either but I imagine having a tank or healer that can do some additional damage might be a good thing. Or everyone having some additional survivabilty might help with certain Affixes.
Hybrids got a bad name (some how) which is a shame as they can be fun in the right area of the game.
In mythic raiding healers sometimes go for damage when there isn’t much to heal, else a healer is just cut out… they can hybrid away in DF all they like.
The worst part is NEEDING to spec into this useless conduit ability ‘‘Sudden Ambush’’ in order to be able to pick up Feral Frenzy.
You NEED to dump 3 talent points into a effectively useless passive in order to pick up what is essentially a core part of ferals rotation. As well as moonfire in cat. It just feels so bad, there is a reason no one ever picked this conduit, having a 15% chance per 5 combo point spender to empower one shred is just garbage.
Apart from that though i really like the feral talents, there is a good mix of choosing between bleeds or big cooldown heavy gameplay. Just this one talent really made me mad since it is basically vanilla tier fluff.
Consider Synergies.
Berserk with predatory swiftness allows you to generate (and therefore spend) loads of combopoints.
Tigers Fury with Eye of Fearful Symetries gives loads of CP as well.
With Incarnation you’ll counter the energy problems while at the same time extends Berserk (making your 5CP-finishers effectively cost only 3CP).
Sudden Ambush can in that scenario help generating even more combopoints from those and might even make Berserk: Junglestalker obsolete to the point where Soul of the Forest might be more efficient.
(btw…my must-have would have been bloodtalons but there we are…different playstyles )
Sure, there probably are synergies, i’m just saying it’s such a useless filler talent.
In the tree you have like 3 ‘‘packages’’ strewn around, you have the Clarity package, with stuff like omen, cat eye curio etc, you have a cooldown package with stuff like berserk buffs, and convoke, and then you have a bleed package, of draught, circle of life and death, swarm etc and then you have this completely out of place passive that blocks off an entire part of the tree, and the stuff it blocks off are all basically dot stuff, swarm, frenzy, BT, moonfire etc.
It would make some sense, if it was tied to some of the clarity stuff since that is about empowering your builder anyway, but it’s not, so not only is it a really bad ability, but it is also actively bad to pick up since it blocks key abilities for the more DoT focused build while not really contributing to that playstyle
Just saying that i noticed it’s the base of the conduit as far as numbers go, since it starts with 3% and goes up, the final version might have a higher % so that the talent is worth more.
They might have just slapped what they had in mind there… tuning to be done later.
But maybe exactly that is it’s purpose.
To give everything that comes below a certain price tag to block off things from the other side which would become absolutely OP if you did not have that entry-price to the lower-left. Haven’t done exact calculations on that though.
there a lot of copium in this thread but wise know nothing will change this is what will go live because blizzard never learns and their “we’re listing” is just puffs of air i have 0 faith in them listing under ion the man has proven him self to be a lier time and again
Usually the point of most talent trees in MMOs, looter shooters, ARPGs etc is to reward you for committing to a certain strength, i.e the more you go down the DoT path the more you get rewarded by being able to pick up stronger stuff related to DoTs.
Maybe their goal is to force players to waste talents because they don’t want people to commit to a playstyle, i’m just saying it’s completely counterintuitive to how character progression usually is done
just like stats nerfs and ilvl nerfs would not effect our ability to solo things we could solo before wake up … Ion lies and this is more bullcrap from a dev team that have 0 talant
i’d sooner trust a team of monkey’s to make good systems then the inept ion and his team of yes men elitist d bags
Just another thing where the price-tag becomes obvious:
You can go left side for Primal Wrath and stick to it.
Or you can go right side for Apex.
However, getting Primal Wrath together with Apex would be quite a damage boost. Therefore they get on two sides for making sure that if you want to have that together, you have paid dearly.
That’s irrelevant.
You’re judging different things here.
Use your judgement for what you can do with the new trees.
Have you even tried making a spec and comparing it to live?
Yes, they position them carefully to have an opportunity cost.
They’re not gonna let us have 3 SS talents and skip the B ones, and take some A ones.
Nah, they’re gonna make use chose 2 SS talents max and get some A and B ones.
They can ascertain the strength of talents, so they have to make sure it doesn’t end up in a place where they have to nerf the lining hell out of some of the talents.
As such positioning can help, as you pointed out.
nah there no point i’m done with ion the lier i’m not buying another expansion from this talantless dev team and their hak leader or daunser the stupid M$ need to fire this waste of space
I agree, but the argument for having a price tag for choosing between single target and AoE is easier to make than the argument for having to sink 3 points into a useless talent for your DoT build to continue picking up stuff beneficial to your chosen strength.
No they aren’t? Especially for druids.
Necrolord cat weaving restoration is the current meta.
If you mean min/max as feral you are owl weaving right now. Not to mention that healer feral has been a fun niche thing in sl.
Guardian druid for most of this expansion used to cat weave in single target and owl weave in aoe.
Only owl boys are lazy
Having hybrids if anything is fun even if not fully optimal. But hey you don’t need optimal anyways.
I am stating that a gameplay where classes overall have more abilities in their baseline toolkit is generally preferable to them having less of it.
I then point out to MoP, the expansion most famous for how much every class had (some would even say homogenization, although BFA was far more homogenized due to azerite powers, essences and corruptions being shared across classes) and compare it to two expansions where the classes have had the least amount of abilities in their toolkit to date.
That was the point. More, generally speaking, is always better.
Then you’ve clearly not been listening at all!
I don’t care whatever shape the talent tree takes. It doesn’t matter to me.
What I care about is false choices and disguised prune being shoved into this new design, when they sell it to us as offering “genuine” choices and somehow drastically allowing us to experiment with the gameplay of our classes when that is not the case, it’s a lie.
The unholy death knight you see in SL is gonna play the exact same way as it currently does. Nothing is going to change about it. You will have the exact same rotation, exact same cooldowns and exact same ability order- When, they promised to us that we’d be able to customize our gameplay with the talent trees. As the Blood death knight talent tree showcases very well, there isn’t any choice. Or well, you have a grand total of 3 of it, compared to previous 7. That alone begs the question why the hell are they even introducing spec talent trees in the first place, if we can’t even customize our gameplay with them in practise at all.
I want to be able to choose to completely forgo my voidform mechanic as a SP, for example. I want my mind blast to be big and fat like it used to be, and I want my dots to hit for more than a wet noodle again. But these talent trees wont offer that “choice”- Because the class design hasn’t changed at all. Therefore, they have no reason to exist and even if the result is ± the same, then you could ask why waste all this developer time to wrap the exact same thing in different paper??
Well, I already know the answer. I already told it. It’s because actual game design is hard. It takes time, it takes effort, you have to consider the game from all the sides, but the modern devs aren’t up to that. How could they be, most of them don’t even play their own game!
Now, the class talent tree is a bit better. It does offer choice, as you keep repeatedly saying, in regards to utility. But, that again raises the question that why should I be thankful for “more” choices and be happy for them, when in the past I had all of those choices and more? Why should I be thankful for that?
Yes, I already demonstrated this in the example I gave.
You’re going to pick it anyway because Blizzard hasn’t changed the way how frost DK’s class design is made, they are just outsourcing the class design to you and let you come to the same conclusion as everybody else that nothing’s changed.
The only difference is you’re gonna be swapping a lot more abilities from one place to another, replacing your keybindings with others, instead of, you know, having them baseline to your spec.
Radical idea I know but you don’t need to use all of your abilities all the time for them to warrant existing.
Agreed, MoP was better because of the class design overall. The talent tree is aprt of that of course, but again, I do not care what shape it takes. I just care about actual choices.
See the blood death knight example above again then, if you missed it. It showcases very well that you’re spending 80% of your talents just to get the stuff that you now have baseline. That ignores talents and legendaries etc.
Now I don’t know if all the specs have it that bad but seeing that problem in one spec is enough to tell me the problem is gonna be more or less the same way in every single other one too.
Sorry I wasn’t aware I was talking to someone who could timetravel into dragonflight and tell me these optimal builds for each content type, my bad.
What’s the point you’re trying to make? Because I am asking for you to tell me, what exactly is better about making those choices as you have showcased them, when I can see in every one of your examples that you have a lot of overlap between the builds? So if you are gonna pick those anyway all the time, why the hell are they talent choices, because they don’t seem to be choices at all?
Where is the choice here, exactly? You could scroll through all of those pictures and find almost no differences. Even if you go further down:
I could pick screens of the rest of the parts too, but save for the feral tree there’s barely any changes. So thanks for proving my point: It’s the same stuff wrapped in new paper.
Just look at those four pictures people. Look at them.
This same guy made 4 different “builds”, and yet he mysteriously always ended up starting the exact same way, every single time. It’s almost like the choice was made for him already.
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